OT. NHS not for sale

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OT. NHS not for sale

Postby Igovernor » Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:51 am

Services will be cut or rationed and the NHS will become an unregulated market for healthcare firms under Sajid Javid’s contradictorily-named Health and Care Bill which – if enacted – will support neither.

That’s the message from Keep Our NHS Public campaigners.

The Bill will break the NHS into 42 separate ‘Integrated Care Systems’ (ICS), each with its own – tight – budget that could lead to cuts in care.

These new organisations would be open to the private sector – and the removal of competitive tendering means contracts could be handed straight to asset-stripping profiteers.

Already, 200 firms are connected to the new ICS structure, including at least 30 US-based health insurance companies.

Companies could be given access to confidential patient information, more patient care will be given by less qualified staff who are cheaper, and non-urgent referrals to hospital delayed or refused because of pressure to make savings.

A drive towards cash-saving digital services means face-to-face GP appointments may end.

The long-awaited overhaul of the care system may end up being a demand on already-overworked family carers to take on more unpaid work as unprofitable community services are stripped away altogether.

National agreements on pay, terms and conditions for NHS staff may be swept away with employees ordered to work wherever private-sector employers find it easiest to make a profit – undermining team working, union organisation and continuity of care.

Oh, and you remember the much-anticipated return of responsibility to the Secretary of State? It means a politician will be able to make devastating decisions about the NHS without any democratic accountability.

The Health Secretary will be able to deregulate jobs – offering them to candidates who don’t have the right qualifications but are available for the right price, risking harm to patients and interfering with professional judgement and staff development.

The NHS will be exempt from the Public Contract Regulations 2015, meaning it will be impossible to reject bids for contracts on the grounds of non-compliance with environmental, social, or labour laws guaranteeing Freedom of Association and the Right to Strike, or on the basis of a bidder’s previous history.

The Health Secretary will also impose local service reconfigurations, weakening or abolishing the right and power local authorities currently have to scrutinise significant health changes.

According to Dr John Lister, Secretary of Keep Our NHS Public and health policy academic

This Bill will not treat even one extra patient, or recruit one extra nurse

He asked why the new law is being deemed so urgent and important – but isn’t it obvious?

Javid, Johnson and the other Tories want to turn your health into a profit-making industry for their donors as soon as possible.
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OT. NHS not for sale

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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby piledriver64 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:30 am

Igovernor wrote:Services will be cut or rationed and the NHS will become an unregulated market for healthcare firms under Sajid Javid’s contradictorily-named Health and Care Bill which – if enacted – will support neither.

That’s the message from Keep Our NHS Public campaigners.

The Bill will break the NHS into 42 separate ‘Integrated Care Systems’ (ICS), each with its own – tight – budget that could lead to cuts in care.

These new organisations would be open to the private sector – and the removal of competitive tendering means contracts could be handed straight to asset-stripping profiteers.

Already, 200 firms are connected to the new ICS structure, including at least 30 US-based health insurance companies.

Companies could be given access to confidential patient information, more patient care will be given by less qualified staff who are cheaper, and non-urgent referrals to hospital delayed or refused because of pressure to make savings.

A drive towards cash-saving digital services means face-to-face GP appointments may end.

The long-awaited overhaul of the care system may end up being a demand on already-overworked family carers to take on more unpaid work as unprofitable community services are stripped away altogether.

National agreements on pay, terms and conditions for NHS staff may be swept away with employees ordered to work wherever private-sector employers find it easiest to make a profit – undermining team working, union organisation and continuity of care.

Oh, and you remember the much-anticipated return of responsibility to the Secretary of State? It means a politician will be able to make devastating decisions about the NHS without any democratic accountability.

The Health Secretary will be able to deregulate jobs – offering them to candidates who don’t have the right qualifications but are available for the right price, risking harm to patients and interfering with professional judgement and staff development.

The NHS will be exempt from the Public Contract Regulations 2015, meaning it will be impossible to reject bids for contracts on the grounds of non-compliance with environmental, social, or labour laws guaranteeing Freedom of Association and the Right to Strike, or on the basis of a bidder’s previous history.

The Health Secretary will also impose local service reconfigurations, weakening or abolishing the right and power local authorities currently have to scrutinise significant health changes.

According to Dr John Lister, Secretary of Keep Our NHS Public and health policy academic

This Bill will not treat even one extra patient, or recruit one extra nurse

He asked why the new law is being deemed so urgent and important – but isn’t it obvious?

Javid, Johnson and the other Tories want to turn your health into a profit-making industry for their donors as soon as possible.


I read an article on this recently and it is really worrying.

It's not quite moving to an American model but it's going in that direction.

My mate who lives in Boston tells me that his health insurance that gives around the same cover as NHS (although still not complete cover) is around £1750 - £1900 per month !!

So it's something we should all worry about.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 am

Your right NHS is not for sale and never will be! Companies have plenty of opportunities to get into nhs by providing services same as private health care but there is very little appetite for it as there is not enough money in it especially for USA firms ....... will see a rise in people using private care but thats because of massive backlog in treatment that's it.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby TopCat CCFC » Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:16 pm

pembroke allan wrote:Your right NHS is not for sale and never will be! Companies have plenty of opportunities to get into nhs by providing services same as private health care but there is very little appetite for it as there is not enough money in it especially for USA firms ....... will see a rise in people using private care but thats because of massive backlog in treatment that's it.


:thumbup:
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby New Day Rising » Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:33 pm

How do you fund an organisation that employs 1.4 million, with spiralling cost in wages which cost 45 billion pa , pensions , hefty training costs , new medicine, new build, ageing population , its bewildering, and a gift from heaven for any opposition party as its not fundable without private investment and support.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby pembroke allan » Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:06 pm

New Day Rising wrote:How do you fund an organisation that employs 1.4 million, with spiralling cost in wages which cost 45 billion pa , pensions , hefty training costs , new medicine, new build, ageing population , its bewildering, and a gift from heaven for any opposition party as its not fundable without private investment and support.



In my 25yrs of being in nhs I am still waiting for takeover of nhs by private companies or health insurance like USA some medical services within nhs are run by private companies and have been for years but very very few.... Also still waiting for mass invasion of usa or any other country taking over private care in uk ? Like said there is a place for it for the middle or high earners but fortunately vast majority of people cannot and never will be able afford private care for that reason there is no long term gain for usa type private insurance to take over healthcare in this country.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby wez1927 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:33 am

pembroke allan wrote:
New Day Rising wrote:How do you fund an organisation that employs 1.4 million, with spiralling cost in wages which cost 45 billion pa , pensions , hefty training costs , new medicine, new build, ageing population , its bewildering, and a gift from heaven for any opposition party as its not fundable without private investment and support.



In my 25yrs of being in nhs I am still waiting for takeover of nhs by private companies or health insurance like USA some medical services within nhs are run by private companies and have been for years but very very few.... Also still waiting for mass invasion of usa or any other country taking over private care in uk ? Like said there is a place for it for the middle or high earners but fortunately vast majority of people cannot and never will be able afford private care for that reason there is no long term gain for usa type private insurance to take over healthcare in this country.

Totally agree
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby Abergavenny » Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:54 am

Private companies have been involved in the health service for many decades and it will not change The country needs a good mix between private health and public health services They can run along side I have no issue in people paying for private health if they can afford it It should in theory put less pressure on the NHS services At one stage i remember the government giving tax relief on private health premiums for the over 60s for the labour government to scrap it What happened was the vast majority of turnover 60s stopped paying for private care and went back using NHS services for things like their hip replacements etc
There has to be a balance
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby pembroke allan » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:18 am

Abergavenny wrote:Private companies have been involved in the health service for many decades and it will not change The country needs a good mix between private health and public health services They can run along side I have no issue in people paying for private health if they can afford it It should in theory put less pressure on the NHS services At one stage i remember the government giving tax relief on private health premiums for the over 60s for the labour government to scrap it What happened was the vast majority of turnover 60s stopped paying for private care and went back using NHS services for things like their hip replacements etc
There has to be a balance



The main reason private health care will never take off is the cost to set up and the salaries of the staff who will need to be paid well above nhs rates... plus it's a very small market and won't take much to overload it with capacity more companies less patients per company less profit it's that simple yanks only do something if theres money to be made.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby Jock » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:04 pm

pembroke allan wrote:Your right NHS is not for sale and never will be! Companies have plenty of opportunities to get into nhs by providing services same as private health care but there is very little appetite for it as there is not enough money in it especially for USA firms ....... will see a rise in people using private care but thats because of massive backlog in treatment that's it.

Labour keep claiming the Tories will sell off the NHS yet despite being in power numerous times since the 80s they still haven’t.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby pembroke allan » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:57 pm

Jock wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:Your right NHS is not for sale and never will be! Companies have plenty of opportunities to get into nhs by providing services same as private health care but there is very little appetite for it as there is not enough money in it especially for USA firms ....... will see a rise in people using private care but thats because of massive backlog in treatment that's it.

Labour keep claiming the Tories will sell off the NHS yet despite being in power numerous times since the 80s they still haven’t.



Exactly for reason I've stated :thumbright:
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby Jock » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:12 am

pembroke allan wrote:
Jock wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:Your right NHS is not for sale and never will be! Companies have plenty of opportunities to get into nhs by providing services same as private health care but there is very little appetite for it as there is not enough money in it especially for USA firms ....... will see a rise in people using private care but thats because of massive backlog in treatment that's it.

Labour keep claiming the Tories will sell off the NHS yet despite being in power numerous times since the 80s they still haven’t.



Exactly for reason I've stated :thumbright:

Interestingly Labour under Blair massively increased PFI.
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Re: OT. NHS not for sale

Postby skidemin » Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:46 am

Jock wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:
Jock wrote:
pembroke allan wrote:Your right NHS is not for sale and never will be! Companies have plenty of opportunities to get into nhs by providing services same as private health care but there is very little appetite for it as there is not enough money in it especially for USA firms ....... will see a rise in people using private care but thats because of massive backlog in treatment that's it.

Labour keep claiming the Tories will sell off the NHS yet despite being in power numerous times since the 80s they still haven’t.



Exactly for reason I've stated :thumbright:

Interestingly Labour under Blair massively increased PFI.



the argument doesnt stand up any more after the Blair years ..yet the scaremongers still push it....
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