BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby skidemin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:46 am

bluebird58 wrote:I’ll judge how good we are after 4 or 5 league games, not after meaningless pre season friendlies



they are meaningless re results... and meaning less for anyone watching { ive stopped going to them this long time }
not so meaningless for players / managers..
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby Sneggyblubird » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:04 am

I been watching pre-season friendlies for 40yrs. To pay that much attention is folly as it has no bearing on the forthcoming season.That's why our re branded Roathie talks so much shite.
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby skidemin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:10 am

Crayfish wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
wez1927 wrote:
Barclay1 wrote:A worrying report. At what point does it stop being about fitness and positional shape?

Sounds like both Cambridge and Forest Green both could have romped home
the teams were mixed and not 1st team 11



Wez,

They might be only friendlies but I have watched every game and so far we are not
Looking that good.

We need more quality ASAP.

We are playing clubs like Cambridge and Forest Green, Our youth should beat them.


Doesn't work like that though. In what used to be called the Auto Glass Trophy,think it was called the Papa Johns trophy last season for sides in league one and two premier league youth teams are allowed to play and mostly lose to the league one and two sides. I think Chelsea's youth team got to the semi final once but no youth team has ever got to the final and that includes the likes of Chelsea Man City Liverpool etc.



correct... last season of the 16 that entered 9 went out in round 1 { group stage } including Liverpool and Chelsea { both failed to win any of their 3 games } ... 6 of the remaining 7 went out in round 2... and Leicester went out in round 3
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby Barclay1 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:03 pm

Then let's see where we are after 5 games, and what effect, if any, have pre-season results nd performances had on the players morale and confidence.

I hope I am very wrong and we do ok, but I voice an opinion, which is allowed, because I am concerned at where our club is being led.
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby pembroke allan » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:13 pm

Sneggyblubird wrote:I been watching pre-season friendlies for 40yrs. To pay that much attention is folly as it has no bearing on the forthcoming season.That's why our re branded Roathie talks so much shite.


As much bearing as a team losing 6-0 then go and beat same team they lost to the following week .... every year have same debate when we dont win by big margin to lesser opposition in friendlies
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby MoodyBluebird » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:31 pm

Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby skidemin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:06 pm

MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.



more or less the same players
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby DeepBlueFC2 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:20 pm

MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby MoodyBluebird » Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:30 pm

DeepBlueFC2 wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:


Based on your penultimate sentence I think you must be a wind-up merchant, so no point me trying to enter into a debate with you over the benefits of ball control, passing etc. Good try though !!
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby 103 Barmy Army » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:27 pm

MoodyBluebird wrote:
DeepBlueFC2 wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:


Based on your penultimate sentence I think you must be a wind-up merchant, so no point me trying to enter into a debate with you over the benefits of ball control, passing etc. Good try though !!



I think it’s a fair point in all honesty. If the tactical approach or style of football are yielding the results mentioned above, it’s not a bad problem to have. When Leicester City won the Premier League as recently as 2016, they had a lesser average percentage of possession than their opponents.

Having said that, I wouldn’t go as far as saying who cares about our weaknesses, as if players have a willingness to learn and highlight areas of improvement, it’s only going to be beneficial.

A friendly match is also an unfair reflection of a players competitive nature and I hate watching them for that reason alone. :thumbup:
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby MoodyBluebird » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm

103 Barmy Army wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:
DeepBlueFC2 wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:


Based on your penultimate sentence I think you must be a wind-up merchant, so no point me trying to enter into a debate with you over the benefits of ball control, passing etc. Good try though !!



I think it’s a fair point in all honesty. If the tactical approach or style of football are yielding the results mentioned above, it’s not a bad problem to have. When Leicester City won the Premier League as recently as 2016, they had a lesser average percentage of possession than their opponents.

Having said that, I wouldn’t go as far as saying who cares about our weaknesses, as if players have a willingness to learn and highlight areas of improvement, it’s only going to be beneficial.

A friendly match is also an unfair reflection of a players competitive nature and I hate watching them for that reason alone. :thumbup:



We are not talking about a style of football here, we are taking about the ability to control and pass the ball, in effect the essence of the game.

There are several different ways to play a successful brand of football but if you can't control and pass the damn thing, you're going nowhere as a team, well backwards perhaps.

You refer to Leicester City and in particular their possession stats when they won the league. That stat is a direct result of their preference to play on the counter-attack, using Vardy and Mahrez as a spearhead up front. It has nothing at all to do with an inability to control and pass a football.
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby Crayfish » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:28 pm

We weren't actually that good at passing the ball and our possession statistics were dire in Warnocks second season in charge and we finished second in the table and were promoted to the premier league. Several much better passing sides were left floundering in mis table. To be honest looking at just our passing and possession statistics for that season and predicting our final position on that basis most people would have predicted we would have been relegated.

The championship in paticular does not paticularly reward teams for passing the ball around pointlessly in your own half. A more direct approach often pays dividends as we found out that season. It's a case of whatever works best for you I think MM understands that and I expect us to be unexpectedly good this season. It won't work in the premier but we are not in the premier.
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby skidemin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:36 pm

MoodyBluebird wrote:
103 Barmy Army wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:
DeepBlueFC2 wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:


Based on your penultimate sentence I think you must be a wind-up merchant, so no point me trying to enter into a debate with you over the benefits of ball control, passing etc. Good try though !!



I think it’s a fair point in all honesty. If the tactical approach or style of football are yielding the results mentioned above, it’s not a bad problem to have. When Leicester City won the Premier League as recently as 2016, they had a lesser average percentage of possession than their opponents.

Having said that, I wouldn’t go as far as saying who cares about our weaknesses, as if players have a willingness to learn and highlight areas of improvement, it’s only going to be beneficial.

A friendly match is also an unfair reflection of a players competitive nature and I hate watching them for that reason alone. :thumbup:



We are not talking about a style of football here, we are taking about the ability to control and pass the ball, in effect the essence of the game.

There are several different ways to play a successful brand of football but if you can't control and pass the damn thing, you're going nowhere as a team, well backwards perhaps.

You refer to Leicester City and in particular their possession stats when they won the league. That stat is a direct result of their preference to play on the counter-attack, using Vardy and Mahrez as a spearhead up front. It has nothing at all to do with an inability to control and pass a football.



of course it has to do..
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby skidemin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:45 pm

Crayfish wrote:We weren't actually that good at passing the ball and our possession statistics were dire in Warnocks second season in charge and we finished second in the table and were promoted to the premier league. Several much better passing sides were left floundering in mis table. To be honest looking at just our passing and possession statistics for that season and predicting our final position on that basis most people would have predicted we would have been relegated.

The championship in paticular does not paticularly reward teams for passing the ball around pointlessly in your own half. A more direct approach often pays dividends as we found out that season. It's a case of whatever works best for you I think MM understands that and I expect us to be unexpectedly good this season. It won't work in the premier but we are not in the premier.



there was a stat posted that year where poss and passing were 23rd best in division... but touches in opposition penalty area and shots we were 2nd .....
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby 103 Barmy Army » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:44 am

MoodyBluebird wrote:
103 Barmy Army wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:
DeepBlueFC2 wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:


Based on your penultimate sentence I think you must be a wind-up merchant, so no point me trying to enter into a debate with you over the benefits of ball control, passing etc. Good try though !!



I think it’s a fair point in all honesty. If the tactical approach or style of football are yielding the results mentioned above, it’s not a bad problem to have. When Leicester City won the Premier League as recently as 2016, they had a lesser average percentage of possession than their opponents.

Having said that, I wouldn’t go as far as saying who cares about our weaknesses, as if players have a willingness to learn and highlight areas of improvement, it’s only going to be beneficial.

A friendly match is also an unfair reflection of a players competitive nature and I hate watching them for that reason alone. :thumbup:



We are not talking about a style of football here, we are taking about the ability to control and pass the ball, in effect the essence of the game.

There are several different ways to play a successful brand of football but if you can't control and pass the damn thing, you're going nowhere as a team, well backwards perhaps.

You refer to Leicester City and in particular their possession stats when they won the league. That stat is a direct result of their preference to play on the counter-attack, using Vardy and Mahrez as a spearhead up front. It has nothing at all to do with an inability to control and pass a football.



I only provided the Leicester example as you originally mentioned “ball retention” as a weakness last season, which naturally links to possession statistics, hence the 2016 reference.

If our players aren’t great at “controlling a football” or “passing,” but compensate in several other aspects such as individual work rate, team cohesion, speed ( :lol:), aggression, ariel prowess, dribbling ability etc. then I’m happy as long as the results are as previously mentioned.

In a nutshell, they can play with one leg tied to the other for all I care, as long as the results mirror those mentioned above as I’m success driven and I’m not bothered how it’s achieved or I’d watch Barcelona on at TV. We all have different views and opinions and I respect yours. :thumbup:
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Re: BACK TO BACK WALL STUFF FROM THE BLUEBIRDS

Postby skidemin » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:13 am

103 Barmy Army wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:
103 Barmy Army wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:
DeepBlueFC2 wrote:
MoodyBluebird wrote:Whilst friendly results really don't mean anything, it would be comforting to know that our glaring weaknesses from last year, ball control, ball retention and passing had been addressed, so I can to some degree understand the concerns raised in this thread.


Why do we care about our weaknesses? We've improved on our strengths. We've finally got a suitable physical striker in Collins who appears to know where the goal is. Out of everything last season it was apparent the main thing we needed was competition for Moore's position, which we do now have. We didn't have much pace last season, and Wilson & Ojo weren't faster than Murphy, Whyte or Giles, not to mention the young wingers we have coming through who could be faster.

My point is, under Mccarthy last season this was our record

10 wins
9 draws
3 losses

Are we seriously suggesting we care about ball control, retention and passing when we're getting results like that from a manager who hasn't even had a full pre season with them yet.

We'll be fine :lol: :lol: :lol:


Based on your penultimate sentence I think you must be a wind-up merchant, so no point me trying to enter into a debate with you over the benefits of ball control, passing etc. Good try though !!



I think it’s a fair point in all honesty. If the tactical approach or style of football are yielding the results mentioned above, it’s not a bad problem to have. When Leicester City won the Premier League as recently as 2016, they had a lesser average percentage of possession than their opponents.

Having said that, I wouldn’t go as far as saying who cares about our weaknesses, as if players have a willingness to learn and highlight areas of improvement, it’s only going to be beneficial.

A friendly match is also an unfair reflection of a players competitive nature and I hate watching them for that reason alone. :thumbup:



We are not talking about a style of football here, we are taking about the ability to control and pass the ball, in effect the essence of the game.

There are several different ways to play a successful brand of football but if you can't control and pass the damn thing, you're going nowhere as a team, well backwards perhaps.

You refer to Leicester City and in particular their possession stats when they won the league. That stat is a direct result of their preference to play on the counter-attack, using Vardy and Mahrez as a spearhead up front. It has nothing at all to do with an inability to control and pass a football.



I only provided the Leicester example as you originally mentioned “ball retention” as a weakness last season, which naturally links to possession statistics, hence the 2016 reference.

If our players aren’t great at “controlling a football” or “passing,” but compensate in several other aspects such as individual work rate, team cohesion, speed ( :lol:), aggression, ariel prowess, dribbling ability etc. then I’m happy as long as the results are as previously mentioned.

In a nutshell, they can play with one leg tied to the other for all I care, as long as the results mirror those mentioned above as I’m success driven and I’m not bothered how it’s achieved or I’d watch Barcelona on at TV. We all have different views and opinions and I respect yours. :thumbup:


agree
id love to know how all these poor passers with poor touch who have come through other clubs and other academies have got this far. :? ...... its pretty obvious they are very decent footballers to even get into an academy let alone play at this level...
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