Cardiff City Football Forum | Cardiff City FC Messageboard

Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

Yep I agree. He's kept us afloat for seasons. Tried to sort the debt out. Lumped with no income and still providing money for every day running

bluebird7291 wrote:Yep I agree. He's kept us afloat for seasons. Tried to sort the debt out. Lumped with no income and still providing money for every day running

done wonders with debt....

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

Barclay1 wrote:

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

For once, I cannot disagree with a word you say.

Barclay1 wrote:

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

Sam for me too... could change depending where we are when VT leaves....

Barclay1 wrote:

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

Absolutely Spot on Lee

The facts are there.


As to someone saying Tan took control of our debt Tan actually trembled it and 12 yrs later we are still in debt after promise after promise.

maccydee wrote:

Barclay1 wrote:

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

For once, I cannot disagree with a word you say.

Yep, I concur; although I believe Bob Grogan was well on his way to sorting this club out before his sad and premature passing

What Kenton Utilities did next set this club back years

Rick Wright was an interesting one; but the irony that he did exactly what he said he would do, including walking away if another owner couldn't be found to take us on, was also part of him being down in the ratings

Also like Clemo, as he did what he could in tough circumstance

It's still tough to judge VT whilst still in power but I think history, red apart, will judge him kindly, as I believe he will not leave us in the lurch financially or projectively

skidemin wrote:

bluebird7291 wrote:Yep I agree. He's kept us afloat for seasons. Tried to sort the debt out. Lumped with no income and still providing money for every day running

done wonders with debt....

He's got rid of majority of historical debt. We are pretty much only in debt to the current owner of a club.
Which is much better than when he took over.

It will only become an issue if he was to sell. But then he would likely take a hit on club worth. How it usually goes.

bluebird7291 wrote:

skidemin wrote:

bluebird7291 wrote:Yep I agree. He's kept us afloat for seasons. Tried to sort the debt out. Lumped with no income and still providing money for every day running

done wonders with debt....

He's got rid of majority of historical debt. We are pretty much only in debt to the current owner of a club.
Which is much better than when he took over.

It will only become an issue if he was to sell. But then he would likely take a hit on club worth. How it usually goes.

. i dont agree he has got rid of historical debt because the clubs debt continued to rise.. taking out a loan to clear existing debts is just shuffling numbers until there is no debt..... then there are the court cases... will we then owe various other parties as well as VT ?
i will judge VT after he is done here... at present , on the field ? we are sort of where we were... financially we owe more... both can change

skidemin wrote:

bluebird7291 wrote:

skidemin wrote:

bluebird7291 wrote:Yep I agree. He's kept us afloat for seasons. Tried to sort the debt out. Lumped with no income and still providing money for every day running

done wonders with debt....

He's got rid of majority of historical debt. We are pretty much only in debt to the current owner of a club.
Which is much better than when he took over.

It will only become an issue if he was to sell. But then he would likely take a hit on club worth. How it usually goes.

. i dont agree he has got rid of historical debt because the clubs debt continued to rise.. taking out a loan to clear existing debts is just shuffling numbers until there is no debt..... then there are the court cases... will we then owe various other parties as well as VT ?
i will judge VT after he is done here... at present , on the field ? we are sort of where we were... financially we owe more... both can change

Exactly and now we are in a bigger debt and to him.

I'm no financial expert but surely it's better for the debt to be owed mainly to one person (who continues to back the club financially) than to HMRC or numerous individual creditors constantly pursuing the club through the courts and threatening to put the club into administration?

Remember how we all felt on Black Friday, Kav in the helicopter to Wigan, loans from the PFA to pay wages, the Riddler with his season ticket "promises" and the new stadium approval at risk?

I loved Sam when he arrived for everything he brought to the club and I can't see how anybody could argue that he wasn't the one who started the roller coaster ride we've had over the last few decades with his vision and passion. It must be highly likely that without him we'd still be rattling around in League 1 or 2.

But I can't help wondering where the club would be now if he hadn't left when he did. Indeed, would there still be a club as we recognise it today?

Would he have been able to do a better job over the years and in the current circumstances than Tan has done? Would he have been able to keep the club afloat without creating a debt similar to or even larger than the current debt?

It's a question we'll never know the answer to of course but it seems to me that towards the end of Sam's reign that for whatever reason it appeared that he had bitten off more than he could chew.

davids wrote:I'm no financial expert but surely it's better for the debt to be owed mainly to one person (who continues to back the club financially) than to HMRC or numerous individual creditors constantly pursuing the club through the courts and threatening to put the club into administration?

Remember how we all felt on Black Friday, Kav in the helicopter to Wigan, loans from the PFA to pay wages, the Riddler with his season ticket "promises" and the new stadium approval at risk?

I loved Sam when he arrived for everything he brought to the club and I can't see how anybody could argue that he wasn't the one who started the roller coaster ride we've had over the last few decades with his vision and passion. It must be highly likely that without him we'd still be rattling around in League 1 or 2.

But I can't help wondering where the club would be now if he hadn't left when he did. Indeed, would there still be a club as we recognise it today?

Would he have been able to do a better job over the years and in the current circumstances than Tan has done? Would he have been able to keep the club afloat without creating a debt similar to or even larger than the current debt?

It's a question we'll never know the answer to of course but it seems to me that towards the end of Sam's reign that for whatever reason it appeared that he had bitten off more than he could chew.

Agree with most of that. Of course we are healthier now despite the (apparent) increased debt.

However I don’t think Sam bit off more than he could chew per se it was the fact his income streams for the club stopped when it became obvious he wouldn’t be allowed to deliver the stadium and surrounds and this was because he was out politicked. Maybe that could be said is bitten off more than he could chew or maybe he trusted the wrong people.

davids wrote:I'm no financial expert but surely it's better for the debt to be owed mainly to one person (who continues to back the club financially) than to HMRC or numerous individual creditors constantly pursuing the club through the courts and threatening to put the club into administration?

Remember how we all felt on Black Friday, Kav in the helicopter to Wigan, loans from the PFA to pay wages, the Riddler with his season ticket "promises" and the new stadium approval at risk?

I loved Sam when he arrived for everything he brought to the club and I can't see how anybody could argue that he wasn't the one who started the roller coaster ride we've had over the last few decades with his vision and passion. It must be highly likely that without him we'd still be rattling around in League 1 or 2.

But I can't help wondering where the club would be now if he hadn't left when he did. Indeed, would there still be a club as we recognise it today?

Would he have been able to do a better job over the years and in the current circumstances than Tan has done? Would he have been able to keep the club afloat without creating a debt similar to or even larger than the current debt?

It's a question we'll never know the answer to of course but it seems to me that towards the end of Sam's reign that for whatever reason it appeared that he had bitten off more than he could chew.

i cant help wondering where the club would be now if he had not come.... dont have to wonder very hard either...
we had just been relegated for the fourth time to the fourth tier and become a lower league yo yo club ...and in fact the club was already unrecognisable to what it is now.... have to say every time i read negativity towards Sam there seems to be this jump to VT which just did not happen.... Sam went and the problems got worse years before VT appeared...black friday wasnt great but many clubs have gone through far worse...arguably even ourselves as we have had to reduce the wage bill a number of times since...

My uncle years ago was asked to join the board at Halifax Being a successful business man back in the 80s and early 90s He was also on Leicester City books in early 60s so knew about professional football He alway said why would he plough his hard earned money into a football team and get abused for doing so if the team was not successful He was being asked to invest £200k at the time Nothing in football terms now i suppose at £1m or more now . However he would get abused by people paying £5 to watch a match that he was not putting enough money in
He just remained a fan of football instead and paid to go to matches

Sven wrote:

maccydee wrote:

Barclay1 wrote:

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

For once, I cannot disagree with a word you say.

Yep, I concur; although I believe Bob Grogan was well on his way to sorting this club out before his sad and premature passing

What Kenton Utilities did next set this club back years

Rick Wright was an interesting one; but the irony that he did exactly what he said he would do, including walking away if another owner couldn't be found to take us on, was also part of him being down in the ratings

Also like Clemo, as he did what he could in tough circumstance

It's still tough to judge VT whilst still in power but I think history, red apart, will judge him kindly, as I believe he will not leave us in the lurch financially or projectively

With you 100% chris! Especially the last sentence.

Sven wrote:

maccydee wrote:

Barclay1 wrote:

Ian Gibson fanclub wrote:Fred Dewey, Goldstone, Clemo, Kumars Kenton Utilities, Cadman, Rick Wright and Marmite Sam
Some shady, some disinterested others off the wall and a couple without a pot to piss in. For my money Tan (rebrand aside) Bob Grogan and maybe TG are the best of the bunch. Any older fans agree ?

An Interesting but dangerous topic! I'm also an older fan, and remember Bob Grogan having such an affinity for the club.

TG was a perfect gentleman, and I wished he could have stayed longer.

For me without a shadow of any doubt it's Marmite Sam, and I am happy to use that term as, like the current incumbent, splits opinion.

Sam raised the profile, grabbed the interest and attention, didn't just support the club as a fan, but fell in love with it, and all that rubbed off on everyone involved at the time.

He started the journey that led us to the Premier League, that led to the new stadium, that led to the return of numbers through the turnstiles. It was because of him that players wanted to come to CARDIFF CITY.

He brought the first sustained success I had known at our club, and turned us from an ailing, failing nothing of a club to a club the City could be proud of.

I won't talk about the current ownership, but for me if Sam were to return to the club he loved, we can kick on again.

For once, I cannot disagree with a word you say.

Yep, I concur; although I believe Bob Grogan was well on his way to sorting this club out before his sad and premature passing

What Kenton Utilities did next set this club back years

Rick Wright was an interesting one; but the irony that he did exactly what he said he would do, including walking away if another owner couldn't be found to take us on, was also part of him being down in the ratings

Also like Clemo, as he did what he could in tough circumstance

It's still tough to judge VT whilst still in power but I think history, red apart, will judge him kindly, as I believe he will not leave us in the lurch financially or projectively

With you 100% chris! Especially the last sentence.