' Blaming the players '

Yes we have some players who are not up to this level BUT I don't blame any of the players for our current and significant problems.

Many of the players in the squad ARE good enough for this level and have played at this and a higher level before.

So I refuse to pick on individual players.

The reality is that it is NOT their fault the manager and board decided to let so many players leave and not replace them.

It is not their fault that the manager plays 5 centre backs - and a team of almost all defensive players.

It is not their fault that there is (Giles aside) NO pace, creativity and flair in the side.

It is not their fault they are being coached to hoof the ball up in the air.

We have a style of play that is so woeful that the decent youngsters are getting spoiled.

Yes individuals are to blame for some goals.... some comical defending for sure.. but the systemic problems in the team, balance of the squad is so significant that picking on individuals isn't helpful at this stage...

I put the longer term blame fully on the board and transfer committee

As for Mick... seriously, this guy is some kind of lunatic.

"happy with the squad", "we have real quality", "More than one way to skin a cat", "Maybe we have been found out", "I can't explain" (why we haven't scored a first half goal)... honestly it's madness

When people state he hasn't had any money to spend (which is partly true).... then he isn't the 'tough' or 'straight talking' guy everyone says he is... He should have DEMANDED signing players (even on a free) with some pace and flair etc

To lose NML, Ojo, Wilson, Junior, Whyte, Murphy in one season and not replace them... To have no natural wingers in the squad... to not have a left back, to have so many defensive midfielders in the team...WHY WOULD ANYONE THINK WE WOULD BE BETTER THAN LAST SEASON?

The reality about Mick is that last season he did a great job playing to our strengths and pushing us up the table.... but he showed no signs of evolving the team or improving the way we play... he just went backwards.

The whole first team set-up from player recruitment to coaching needs to be scrapped and started again.

No one who cares at the club and can make a difference is interested unfortunately.

The silence is an indication of how much they care about the fans.

The similarity between last night and Harris' last game in charge was something that struck me immediately so perhaps the players are trying to sent a message.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

The ugly truth is MM is simply not up to the job of managing a championship level football side any more. He had an initial as badsuccess through new manager effect and the team working ferociously hard for a few games after that we slowly reverted to type. He has actually now made us one of the most unattractive sides to watch in the entire football league.

MM is Like some Cromwell style football Puritan there to root out any flair class or passing ability in the side. By the end of the season we will end up playing with a keeper and ten centre backs. Needless to say he isn't going anywhere until he is sacked for one last big payoff. If he is still here at the end of the season we will be in league two next season. I used to believe he was pragmatic enough not to get us relegated even if the football was bad but don't believe that anymore. We are as bad as when he came in on the back of five straight defeats and his nonsensical solution is to keep playing more centre backs.

Good Manager or bad Manager, each professional player (on wages we can only dream of) has a duty or at least should have the ability to do basic things. So why cant our players make simple passes, mark players correctly, not back off into the area ie defend properly. Will these players suddenly be able to do these things if / when we get a new manager.
Personally I cant see it and we need a completely new regime of football, even if it means clearing out, going down and coming back better.

From last night's 18 Morrison, Smithies and Ralls played Premier league with us. Only Bacuna has played PL for another club. To say they are this and that at this level and above is not right as they simply aren't.
Hardly any have played even top half of championship. It's not the players fault they are not good enough but they are not. Individually or collectively. At least when organised by MM.
They are not good enough to play any brand of football other than that favoured by Warnock and MM. The kids may be good enough in time but they are definitely not good enough now and not for the scrap ahead. The so called senior players need to step up but there seems little sign of that at present.

I really did hope that we could exploit the loan market. I understand the obstacles when Warnock was here and PL managers wouldnt trust him with their young talent but we haven't managed that very well either. Giles is great but we need at least two more of him.
The players currently deserve the criticism coming their way. It's not MMs fault Morrison, Flint and Nelson treat the ball as hot potato and fail to complete ten yard passes most of the time. It is though patently MMs fault for lining up five centre half's last night.

The players have to take some blame as well with their performances over the last few weeks. How can you have players with championship and premier league experience be so poor and a shambles as they have been.
The players have let the fans down with there effort and are as equally to blame as the manager in my eyes
Morrison
Flint
Pack
Nelson
Bacuna
Moore
Vaulks
Collins
All well experience players at this level have not put a shift in that warrants being paid in the last 5 matches We have set up defensively in last two games and let in 9 goals and only one i would say was unstoppable
They have been a disgrace to the shirt

Bacuna last night was awful, didn’t chase down, didn’t track back, just didn’t seem to be interested,a disgrace.

Not sure.

The same players can play really well as shown then absolutely play shite. Same happened with Harris.

Players have to take a bit of the blame.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The ugly truth is MM is simply not up to the job of managing a championship level football side any more. He had an initial as badsuccess through new manager effect and the team working ferociously hard for a few games after that we slowly reverted to type. He has actually now made us one of the most unattractive sides to watch in the entire football league.

MM is Like some Cromwell style football Puritan there to root out any flair class or passing ability in the side. By the end of the season we will end up playing with a keeper and ten centre backs. Needless to say he isn't going anywhere until he is sacked for one last big payoff. If he is still here at the end of the season we will be in league two next season. I used to believe he was pragmatic enough not to get us relegated even if the football was bad but don't believe that anymore. We are as bad as when he came in on the back of five straight defeats and his nonsensical solution is to keep playing more centre backs.

League two next season?

Wow, he’s that bad he’s getting us relegated two divisions.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Ian, when malky gets credit for our promotion (not sure if you have done that) it is said that he started from scratch and had to put together a squad so can’t have it both ways.

Again based on the above we weren’t primed for the premier league at all. We failed multiple times and the last season we relied on a lot of loan players. We had missed the window. True DJ had put together a good spine but the squad had to be strengthened considerably something we couldn’t have done without Tan’s money. Prior to Tan there was no money and we were on the verge of liquidation Rather than premier league.

We aren’t on the verge of league one although Mick is looking increasingly clueless. However as one of the people who said prefer that we are blue in league one then maybe you will get your hope. I think you would be happy with it.

All my points stand.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Ian, when malky gets credit for our promotion (not sure if you have done that) it is said that he started from scratch and had to put together a squad so can’t have it both ways.

Again based on the above we weren’t primed for the premier league at all. We failed multiple times and the last season we relied on a lot of loan players. We had missed the window. True DJ had put together a good spine but the squad had to be strengthened considerably something we couldn’t have done without Tan’s money. Prior to Tan there was no money and we were on the verge of liquidation Rather than premier league.

We aren’t on the verge of league one although Mick is looking increasingly clueless. However as one of the people who said prefer that we are blue in league one then maybe you will get your hope. I think you would be happy with it.

All my points stand.

When Malky came in he had a number of DJ's players still on the books.

We were threatened with Liquidation from the HRMC for about £3m in unpaid taxes. Well there was very little chance of us going down that route as we were knocking on the Premier door and its prize of millions. That is what attracted Tan and £3m is nothing to him or the ongoing costs. We were never going to go out of business.

If you think we are not on the verge of relegation I would say you are on your own on that one. I will say the majority of us thought that but after seeing these last 3 displays of late that najority has changed its mind without doubt.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Ian, when malky gets credit for our promotion (not sure if you have done that) it is said that he started from scratch and had to put together a squad so can’t have it both ways.

Again based on the above we weren’t primed for the premier league at all. We failed multiple times and the last season we relied on a lot of loan players. We had missed the window. True DJ had put together a good spine but the squad had to be strengthened considerably something we couldn’t have done without Tan’s money. Prior to Tan there was no money and we were on the verge of liquidation Rather than premier league.

We aren’t on the verge of league one although Mick is looking increasingly clueless. However as one of the people who said prefer that we are blue in league one then maybe you will get your hope. I think you would be happy with it.

All my points stand.

When Malky came in he had a number of DJ's players still on the books.

We were threatened with Liquidation from the HRMC for about £3m in unpaid taxes. Well there was very little chance of us going down that route as we were knocking on the Premier door and its prize of millions. That is what attracted Tan and £3m is nothing to him or the ongoing costs. We were never going to go out of business.

If you think we are not on the verge of relegation I would say you are on your own on that one. I will say the majority of us thought that but after seeing these last 3 displays of late that najority has changed its mind without doubt.

Yes relegation is an option at moment and many more displays like last night and we'll be in bottom 3 and I've serious doubts if mick would get us out of it even allowing fro other clubs points deduction.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Ian, when malky gets credit for our promotion (not sure if you have done that) it is said that he started from scratch and had to put together a squad so can’t have it both ways.

Again based on the above we weren’t primed for the premier league at all. We failed multiple times and the last season we relied on a lot of loan players. We had missed the window. True DJ had put together a good spine but the squad had to be strengthened considerably something we couldn’t have done without Tan’s money. Prior to Tan there was no money and we were on the verge of liquidation Rather than premier league.

We aren’t on the verge of league one although Mick is looking increasingly clueless. However as one of the people who said prefer that we are blue in league one then maybe you will get your hope. I think you would be happy with it.

All my points stand.

When Malky came in he had a number of DJ's players still on the books.

We were threatened with Liquidation from the HRMC for about £3m in unpaid taxes. Well there was very little chance of us going down that route as we were knocking on the Premier door and its prize of millions. That is what attracted Tan and £3m is nothing to him or the ongoing costs. We were never going to go out of business.

If you think we are not on the verge of relegation I would say you are on your own on that one. I will say the majority of us thought that but after seeing these last 3 displays of late that najority has changed its mind without doubt.

Saying on verge of relegation is ridiculous hyperbole and you are doing it purely to suit your anti Tan agenda.

The exact same team had a pretty decent record against the first 7 teams we played.

We will be better than three teams (if not more) this year notwithstanding how awful we have been.

I was at Coventry and watched last night. Both really bad and Blackburn was also shocking to concede 5. But didn’t those who watched it say we played well until their goal?

We had no one else interested in buying us. We were on the verge of liquidation. This time its use is accurate not hyperbole. The playoffs we were destined for were a 1 in 4 chance at best.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Hang on - so you give Tan credit for nothing good that has happened, but blame him for everything bad that has happened? So if your not giving credit to Tan for the first promotion, assume that your giving it to Ridsdale then?

If Tan gets blamed for appointing bad managers (and there have been some shockers), then give him credit for appointing Warnock…who by the way wasted so much bloody money on rubbish or players he didn’t know what to do with, which is partly why we are in this mess.

As for your later point on HMRC not taking us to court as we were on the verge on the PL - firstly, we weren’t and history would tell you that we had blown opportunities many times before and secondly that is not how HMRC works.

Of course Tan has got things wrong (but show me one owner who hasn’t) and if we end up in L1, then of course we will be in a worse league position that when he arrived (and I deliberately use the word ‘league’), but you’re so blinkered you can’t even give an ounce of credit for something that hadn’t happened for near on 50 years before he was here.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Hang on - so you give Tan credit for nothing good that has happened, but blame him for everything bad that has happened? So if your not giving credit to Tan for the first promotion, assume that your giving it to Ridsdale then?

If Tan gets blamed for appointing bad managers (and there have been some shockers), then give him credit for appointing Warnock…who by the way wasted so much bloody money on rubbish or players he didn’t know what to do with, which is partly why we are in this mess.

As for your later point on HMRC not taking us to court as we were on the verge on the PL - firstly, we weren’t and history would tell you that we had blown opportunities many times before and secondly that is not how HMRC works.

Of course Tan has got things wrong (but show me one owner who hasn’t) and if we end up in L1, then of course we will be in a worse league position that when he arrived (and I deliberately use the word ‘league’), but you’re so blinkered you can’t even give an ounce of credit for something that hadn’t happened for near on 50 years before he was here.

That’s Ian.

Absolute class bloke but is so blinkered to Tan he can’t see when he is being hypocritical. Massively is.

Completely agree with the OP

The blame lies with the people who run the club. Dalman / Choo / Tan - none of them have any clue about how to get success on the pitch. They will talk up their business successes, figures and forecasts but what about the actual football product our team is putting on the pitch? It's pathetic.

Really? Don’t know how to get success on the pitch?

Two promotions?

Give your head a wobble.

The first promotion was a carry on from what was achieved before these lot came along. The second one was down to the miracle works of Warnock with moderate championship players.

These monkeys upstair came in when we were primed for Premier. 10 years later we are primed for League one. I would say go and give your head a knock against the wall but I doubt there is anything between your ears to be effected.

Hang on - so you give Tan credit for nothing good that has happened, but blame him for everything bad that has happened? So if your not giving credit to Tan for the first promotion, assume that your giving it to Ridsdale then?

If Tan gets blamed for appointing bad managers (and there have been some shockers), then give him credit for appointing Warnock…who by the way wasted so much bloody money on rubbish or players he didn’t know what to do with, which is partly why we are in this mess.

As for your later point on HMRC not taking us to court as we were on the verge on the PL - firstly, we weren’t and history would tell you that we had blown opportunities many times before and secondly that is not how HMRC works.

Of course Tan has got things wrong (but show me one owner who hasn’t) and if we end up in L1, then of course we will be in a worse league position that when he arrived (and I deliberately use the word ‘league’), but you’re so blinkered you can’t even give an ounce of credit for something that hadn’t happened for near on 50 years before he was here.

Well said.