Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter

Debt free in 5 years

What happened to that?

Didn't Tan say it and it’s now 11 yrs and we are worse of in league position, debt bigger and squad weaker, fans fed up and lower crowds all sad facts

Annis
As you know I disagree with a lot that Vincent Tan has done since he acquired the club and continue to be frustrated and annoyed with the fact that he is the sole decision maker on most if not all major decisions. I am also annoyed with him and Neil Warnock for having done things (dealing with Willie McKay in a very dubious manner etc) directly against the specific instruction of the board of directors.

However, some misunderstandings need to be corrected before people make assumptions and conclusions based on inaccurate information.

The Vincent Tan promise to make the club debt free in 5 years was made in February 2016 (I was at the meeting when he said it) so about 5 years and 8 months ago not when he took over 11 years ago so he is currently just over 8 months overdue in complying with that promise. That period has included the best part of two years of a global pandemic affecting the football world plus also his wider business empire so hardly unexpected that the deadline has slipped , and will probably continue to do do until the business world returns far closer to normality.

Since he made the promise to clear all the debt he has converted £76m of debt into shares plus written off a further £23m of debt , so the promise made has progressed by just under £100m.

Keith,


I hear quite the opposite that you are the one at the meetings bowing down to the Committee and agreeing with everything to just keep your status and room at the club, so No in my view you don’t stand up to them and that’s from others that attend.

Are we debt free yes or no? Straight answer please

Who made the majority or shall I say the current debts?


Dalman once again says they turned down offers well I know that’s true , so for me the current owner then has to accept responsibility to keep on looking after our club and clearing the debt he actually created after 11 yrs.

As to hailing Tan a hero paying off £100 mill he made that debt himself and so he should be clearing it.

So really we should be debt free by now surely???


It’s been 11 years and the pandemic has only been around 18mths

Annis , sorry but that it total b*llocks , as you would know all too well if you had been at any of the meetings. All you have to do is ask the likes of Vince. Corky or Keiran who also attend most of those meetings (at least one of those has been at all the meetings I believe). Up to and including the meeting last Saturday I have asked sometimes awkward questions of the directors both at the meetings themselves and in follow up emails. Far from the case of "agreeing with everything " or "bowing down" to the Committee as you say here so please don`t make this things up or naively believe who is telling you these things without checking out the facts with people who were there.. If you are including the club football manager at the relevant time as part of the Committee then I have never given that person a hard time as no manager has been present at the meetings I have attended. I would be very interested who this person is or people are that you say attend the meetings who are telling you differently and would gladly have a conversation with them directly as they are either are misinforming you or don`t exist.

As for status or room at the club I have neither do not sure where you get that from either. I am not beholden to the club in any way so can express my views to them independently.

Are we debt free now or not? No we are not , but without checking the accounts this late at night , I think the independently audited accounts up to 31 May 2020 (the most recent available) show the club`s net liability position is no worse now than when Sam was in charge .Do I believe that the position could be even better than it is financially? Yes I certainly do and have said so to the directors on more than one occasion.

Who created the debts in the first place? Vincent Tan but the point I was making which you don`t seem to want to grasp is that nearly £100m of that debt has been either written off through the accounts or been converted into shares in just under 5 years up to 31 May 2020 - not my opinion but a fact verified by audited accounts .I have never hailed Tan as a hero (he is far from it in my eyes as you suggest) but merely stated facts which are easy to demonstrate as true).

As I have clearly stated the promise to make the club free within 5 years ago was in early 2016 not 11 years ago. If the pandemic had not made clearing the balance of debt impracticable . I would be among the first to criticise the owner for not sticking to his promise. I will continue to be critical if the promise is not kept when it is reasonable to do so.

The club deserves to be criticised when they do things wrong and cost the club I have loved for 60 years and I will continue to do so . from owner down through directors to the football manager in an independent manner but based on facts not hearsay and with no hidden agenda.

Not entirely sure why you make these unfounded accusations without checking out facts first but they are not helpful at all when we are both loyal fans of the club (ahead of any loyalties to any particular owner or director past or present) who only want the best for it now and going forward.

If you think any od my comments in this or any of my earlier posts are factually incorrect , please point out here in response but I don`t want this to be a long drawn out argument serving no purpose

Keith is there anyway we can find out what the debt was when Tan took over the club and how much was the club losing at the time per week? I maintain constantly that we had already spent a lot of future monies so there was no way the debt wouldn’t increase exponentially on Tan taking over.

Debt free in 5 years

What happened to that?

Didn't Tan say it and it’s now 11 yrs and we are worse of in league position, debt bigger and squad weaker, fans fed up and lower crowds all sad facts

Annis
As you know I disagree with a lot that Vincent Tan has done since he acquired the club and continue to be frustrated and annoyed with the fact that he is the sole decision maker on most if not all major decisions. I am also annoyed with him and Neil Warnock for having done things (dealing with Willie McKay in a very dubious manner etc) directly against the specific instruction of the board of directors.

However, some misunderstandings need to be corrected before people make assumptions and conclusions based on inaccurate information.

The Vincent Tan promise to make the club debt free in 5 years was made in February 2016 (I was at the meeting when he said it) so about 5 years and 8 months ago not when he took over 11 years ago so he is currently just over 8 months overdue in complying with that promise. That period has included the best part of two years of a global pandemic affecting the football world plus also his wider business empire so hardly unexpected that the deadline has slipped , and will probably continue to do do until the business world returns far closer to normality.

Since he made the promise to clear all the debt he has converted £76m of debt into shares plus written off a further £23m of debt , so the promise made has progressed by just under £100m.

Keith,


I hear quite the opposite that you are the one at the meetings bowing down to the Committee and agreeing with everything to just keep your status and room at the club, so No in my view you don’t stand up to them and that’s from others that attend.

Are we debt free yes or no? Straight answer please

Who made the majority or shall I say the current debts?


Dalman once again says they turned down offers well I know that’s true , so for me the current owner then has to accept responsibility to keep on looking after our club and clearing the debt he actually created after 11 yrs.

As to hailing Tan a hero paying off £100 mill he made that debt himself and so he should be clearing it.

So really we should be debt free by now surely???


It’s been 11 years and the pandemic has only been around 18mths

Annis , sorry but that it total b*llocks , as you would know all too well if you had been at any of the meetings. All you have to do is ask the likes of Vince. Corky or Keiran who also attend most of those meetings (at least one of those has been at all the meetings I believe). Up to and including the meeting last Saturday I have asked sometimes awkward questions of the directors both at the meetings themselves and in follow up emails. Far from the case of "agreeing with everything " or "bowing down" to the Committee as you say here so please don`t make this things up or naively believe who is telling you these things without checking out the facts with people who were there.. If you are including the club football manager at the relevant time as part of the Committee then I have never given that person a hard time as no manager has been present at the meetings I have attended. I would be very interested who this person is or people are that you say attend the meetings who are telling you differently and would gladly have a conversation with them directly as they are either are misinforming you or don`t exist.

As for status or room at the club I have neither do not sure where you get that from either. I am not beholden to the club in any way so can express my views to them independently.

Are we debt free now or not? No we are not , but without checking the accounts this late at night , I think the independently audited accounts up to 31 May 2020 (the most recent available) show the club`s net liability position is no worse now than when Sam was in charge .Do I believe that the position could be even better than it is financially? Yes I certainly do and have said so to the directors on more than one occasion.

Who created the debts in the first place? Vincent Tan but the point I was making which you don`t seem to want to grasp is that nearly £100m of that debt has been either written off through the accounts or been converted into shares in just under 5 years up to 31 May 2020 - not my opinion but a fact verified by audited accounts .I have never hailed Tan as a hero (he is far from it in my eyes as you suggest) but merely stated facts which are easy to demonstrate as true).

As I have clearly stated the promise to make the club free within 5 years ago was in early 2016 not 11 years ago. If the pandemic had not made clearing the balance of debt impracticable . I would be among the first to criticise the owner for not sticking to his promise. I will continue to be critical if the promise is not kept when it is reasonable to do so.

The club deserves to be criticised when they do things wrong and cost the club I have loved for 60 years and I will continue to do so . from owner down through directors to the football manager in an independent manner but based on facts not hearsay and with no hidden agenda.

Not entirely sure why you make these unfounded accusations without checking out facts first but they are not helpful at all when we are both loyal fans of the club (ahead of any loyalties to any particular owner or director past or present) who only want the best for it now and going forward.

If you think any od my comments in this or any of my earlier posts are factually incorrect , please point out here in response but I don`t want this to be a long drawn out argument serving no purpose

Keith,

I won’t get in to names publicly on here Keith.


So I’d our club in a good position?

Is our club in a better position all round than 11 yrs ago?

On the field / off the field etc?

Is the debt higher now than 11 yrs ago?

So is the Committee doing a good job?



One point not covered here, Tan's debt to equity promise is the 2nd time he promised but hasn't delivered.

The initial promise was at the time of the horrific rebrand in 2013. In fact, Keith himself covered this not being delivered either.


https://www.ccfctrust.org/the-differenc ... explained/

Tan has mentioned clearing the debt well before 2016.

Tan converted quite a bit of the debt to shares therefore devaluing the share price considerable resulting in a court case against him from Isaacs. Besides using this only avenue at the time to reduce the debt I have always felt there was another reason for it. Now I believe it is because he wants out of the club but wants to keep his shares. This way when a new owner comes in and loughs there own money into the club the share price will rise with Tan making a profit without his own money being used.

I have a feeling this is why Tan has rejected these offers to sell because it comprised selling his shares.

Tan has mentioned clearing the debt well before 2016.

Tan converted quite a bit of the debt to shares therefore devaluing the share price considerable resulting in a court case against him from Isaacs. Besides using this only avenue at the time to reduce the debt I have always felt there was another reason for it. Now I believe it is because he wants out of the club but wants to keep his shares. This way when a new owner comes in and loughs there own money into the club the share price will rise with Tan making a profit without his own money being used.

I have a feeling this is why Tan has rejected these offers to sell because it comprised selling his shares.

Correct ian,

When he first arrived and again in 2013.

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Tan has mentioned clearing the debt well before 2016.

Tan converted quite a bit of the debt to shares therefore devaluing the share price considerable resulting in a court case against him from Isaacs. Besides using this only avenue at the time to reduce the debt I have always felt there was another reason for it. Now I believe it is because he wants out of the club but wants to keep his shares. This way when a new owner comes in and loughs there own money into the club the share price will rise with Tan making a profit without his own money being used.

I have a feeling this is why Tan has rejected these offers to sell because it comprised selling his shares.

You do realise that when anyone buys a club they buy the shares but they pay a share price ,I very much doubt that tan will get all his money back hes put in as it would mean selling hus club shares for over 200 million in total which isn't going to happen .

Tan has mentioned clearing the debt well before 2016.

Tan converted quite a bit of the debt to shares therefore devaluing the share price considerable resulting in a court case against him from Isaacs. Besides using this only avenue at the time to reduce the debt I have always felt there was another reason for it. Now I believe it is because he wants out of the club but wants to keep his shares. This way when a new owner comes in and loughs there own money into the club the share price will rise with Tan making a profit without his own money being used.

I have a feeling this is why Tan has rejected these offers to sell because it comprised selling his shares.

If a new investor comes in and new shares are issued ,then all other existing shares are devalued and tan will lose money not make also