Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter

MY VIEW:

VERY VERY WORRYING FOR THE FUTURE OF OUR CLUB
I said in June/ July on many occasions I feared for the future of OUR Club but was shot down by the usual posters.

NO MONEY FOR JAN OR SUMMER 2022 / COURT CASES AHEAD & NOT LOOKING GOOD / SUDDENLY THE MONEY FOR SALA IS NO LONGER THEIR / TAN DECIDES ON THE FOOTBALL, ON HOW WE PLAY & IT LOOKS LIKE DALMAN IS TURNING ON HIS BOSS TAN


Mehmet Dalman's extraordinary meeting with City supporter representatives on Saturday

“Note Of Meeting With Mehmet Dalman 23 October 2021

By the other Bob Wilson


Dear Member,

Representatives of the Trust, Supporters Club, Disabled Supporters Group plus other fans representatives were invited at short notice to a meeting with Mehmet Dalman, Ken Choo and other club representatives at 11.00 am on the morning of the Middlesbrough home game. The meeting was conducted primarily by Mehmet with occasional contributions by Ken. Given the dire form of the team at the moment it was a sobering experience with further bad news about the financial situation the club finds itself in.

In terms of overall finances. MD stated categorically that there would be no transfer funds available for not only the January transfer window but also next summer.

As a number of players’ contracts expire this summer it will be challenging for the incumbent manager.


MD stated that Vincent Tan is looking to restructure the finances of the club although specific detail of this proposal was not forthcoming.

MD reiterated statements he has made in the past that VT has turned down offers to buy the club and restated VT’s wish that, if he does sell, he will wish to part with the club with it in a better position than when he acquired it. MD emphasised throughout how financially reliant the club are on VT.




The future of Mick McCarthy was discussed at length. Questions from the floor were raised about the possibility of a Director of Football. MD stated that it is an idea which he favours and has put the suggestion forward to VT who, after consideration, turned down the proposal. In terms of any decision regarding the future of Mick McCarthy he emphasised that such a decision would be solely in the hands of VT and no-one else. Given that we now know that the Club and MM have parted company, VT’s decision must either have been pre-prepared dependent upon today’s result or sought and communicated very quickly. It was suggested from the floor that, given the success we are currently experiencing at U23 level, Steve Morison could be appointed as an interim measure whilst the club sorted out a long term replacement. MD pointed out, given the real risk of relegation, the inherent risks of such an approach. As we now know that is exactly what has happened so we can only assume that the club has risk assessed that approach.

MD gave his assessment of the legal cases currently facing the club. In terms of the court case currently taking place in Cardiff re the arrangements for the fatal flight carrying Emiliano Sala. He commented on the fact that the evidence was confirming the link directly from the deceased pilot to Henderson to Willie McKay who was acting on behalf of Nantes FC. MD stated that, should the club’s appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) be unsuccessful, the possibility then would exist for an action in the French courts against Nantes FC for the negligent flight arrangements. Interestingly, MD stated categorically that both he and KC were opposed to the transfer of Emiliano Sala and that Neil Warnock had gone over their heads and appealed directly to VT persuading him to approve the transfer which he duly did. MD was asked from the floor why the club was dealing with McKay who had lost his status as a football agent and had also been declared bankrupt. MD’s only answer to that question was that the world of football was full of people like him.

The Michael Isaacs case concerns the dilution of his shareholding by VT’s significant conversion of debt to equity. MD was somewhat dismissive of this action in that Michael Isaac’s valuation of his shareholding would vastly overvalue the club as an entity, mostly a loss-making entity !

In terms of the Sam Hammam case. He implied that Peter Ridsdale was acting in concert with Sam Hammam against the club. If any EFL club are involved in significant litigation the EFL requires that is informed of developments. MD suggested that Ridsdale’s position on the board of the EFL could lead to a conflict of interest.

In response to a question from the floor MD confirmed that he receives no salary from the club in his position as Chairman.

Fans present were critical of the level of communication with supporters and MD mentioned the possibility of quarterly online meetings. It was also suggested from the Trust and that an invite be sent to social media outlets such as those who run fan messageboards so that they receive factual updates rather than misleading interpretations that often get posted.

One of the consistent themes throughout the meeting was the absolute control of VT over all matters of significance. MD described the Cardiff City Board as being “unique” in that it dominated by the owner and (virtually) 100% shareholder. As I have already mentioned MD stated that change of manager decision was in the hands of VT, all major decisions require the rubber stamp of VT even down to style of football.

Apparently VT favours the “direct” style of football which has been a feature of our play in recent times. The fact that this contrasts significantly with the style of football played by our successful Development teams and may risk us not hanging on to our most promising players was pointed out from the floor

Keith Morgan

Chair”

I find this an astonishingly frank document which raises a number of questions, for example;-

Was our Chairman telling the truth?

Unless or until someone in a position to be able to dispute what was said comes forward, I don’t think there’s any question to be answered here, the assumption has to be that what Mr Dalman says is the truth.

What does the stuff about our finances mean?

When it comes to financial matters, as someone whose interest in such things stretches only to how the limited amount of money I have can make make myself and those dependent on me as comfortable as possible, I’m the last person who should be attempting to answer that question.

However, I can’t help thinking people far more knowledgeable about such things than me would struggle to come up with an answer, because there’s not a great deal being said and what we do learn only invites more questions.

The point has been made a few times that Vincent Tan’s business empire has taken something of a hit during the pandemic, so the sort of cost cutting summer City have just gone through did not come as a total shock, but why the need for such drastic expenditure cuts in January and through next summer as well?

Also, what is meant by “refinancing” and why is it deemed necessary that additional funding has to be provided through that channel? Furthermore, how on earth will this refinancing enable Vincent Tan to have the club in a better position when he leaves than when he acquired it?

Is there an admission in there that all of the senior players who are out of contract this summer will not be offered new deals?

The answer to that would appear to be yes. Presumably, this will not come as a total shock to the men concerned, because, surely, they will have been made aware of this some time ago? That being the case, it offers a possible partial reason why the performance of so many of the older players has been so disappointing this season and it also asks serious questions as to what we can expect from those players over the coming months – even in the rare event of the Board getting the decision right regarding the new manager.

Why has Mehmet Dalman rubbished the idea of us having a Director of Football before when he now says he’s in favour of us having one?

I can only assume that he was representing the views of Vincent Tan in his previous utterances on the subject, but then why does he choose now to let people know his own thoughts on the subject?

A theme throughout the notes of the meeting is the Chairman’s desire to get over the point that our owner is in total control of the club. However, this is not the only time when Mr Dalman talks about his view being different from Vincent Tan’s and through them all I find myself asking “Why now?”. The only answer I can think of is that it’s an attempt to avoid blame from supporters and, presumably, that applies to Ken Choo as well, because, although he didn’t have a great deal to say at the meeting apparently, his presence at the meeting would appear to indicate backing for what Dalman was saying.

Emiliano Sala questions.

I’d heard the line about Neil Warnock going over the heads of Messrs Dalman and Choo in persuading Vincent Tan to agree to the Sala signing a couple of times before in 2019, so it doesn’t come as a total shock, but it is an explosive allegation which also backs up a few rumours I’d heard regarding our former manager’s relationship with the people in the club hierarchy he was most frequently in contact with. However, I suppose that it is something of a side issue to the financial implications for the club in the event of the appeal to the Court of Arbitration in Sport verdict regarding City’s liability regarding the £15 million transfer fee being turned down.

From what Mr Dalman had to say, it appears that an unsuccessful appeal will not be the end of this matter which has now dragged on for close to three years, I suppose a further case in the French courts makes sense from the club’s viewpoint, but it does leave a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.

I’d also just add that Dalman’s answer regarding the club’s willingness to work with the bankrupt and “disbarred” former football agent Willie McKay comes over as terribly weak.

Does the possibility of Peter Ridsdale acting “in concert” with Sam Hammam sound plausible?

We’re talking about a long time ago now, but, judging how relations were between the two men in the mid to late noughties, my answer would be no – that said, it does seem fair to raise the matter of a possible conflict of interests on Mr Ridsdale’s part.

Did Vincent Tan know about some of the revelations by his Chairman beforehand and how would he feel about them being made now?

Strangely enough, I’d only speculated about the possibility of Vincent Tan being the driving force behind the miserable, outdated, cumbersome and ultimately unsuccessful style of football we’ve been playing for the last ten years or so on a City messageboard last week – it all makes sense when you consider previous comments from our owner about goalkeepers not shooting etc! Again though, the phrase “blame avoidance” springs to mind when considering what our Chairman has to say.

That said, it does paint a bleak picture which, together with the comments on a Director of Football, leaves me feeling that little is going to change in the coming weeks regarding the style of play and the type of manager we go for (Tony Pulis would complete the set wouldn’t he).

Moving on to the questions I asked above, I must admit that I find it hard to believe that Vincent Tan would be overly pleased about what Mehmet Dalman had to say about him yesterday because it hardly paints him in the best light does it.

It rather raises the question as to how relations are currently at the top end of things at the club and it will be fascinating to see if Vincent Tan has anything to say in the coming days about the Chairman’s comments – if he hasn’t, then I suppose it means he’s alright with them.

Whatever the answer, you can only think that the normal level of decision making and general management of a modern day football club that we’ve seen from the Cardiff hierarchy in the last decade will, almost certainly, not be enough this time – I believe more of the same sees us relegated this season

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More Dalman:

‘We have a transfer committee, but if you have a really strong manager, like Neil Warnock, they seem to break the transfer policy. Emiliano Sala is an example. The Board were not supportive of paying that sum, but he went over our heads to Vincent.’ So yeah.

Dalman:
Vincent Tan responsible for style of play and Warnock went over his head with Sala signing.

Where is Jalil Rasheed currently, especially given what his supposed remit was when he joined the club?

Doesn't paint a very positive picture of the future for our club.

Surprised about putting the boot in to NW regarding Sala because in fairness to the guy in terms of the PL he hardly overspent on players or playing budget and everyone knows we needed a forward. More worrying is his comment on Willi McKay because he is due to give evidence in the Henderson trial this week, will he say he became involved because of an approach by NW.
What price any future action against Nantes then?

One thing is certain it won't matter about no funds for transfers in January or next summer because IF we don't win the CAS case and don't then pay Nantes expect a 2-3 transfer window ban on City signing players by FIFA.

Whatever your view on VT in my opinion having MD & KC making decisions on who the club signs is a massive problem and just highlights how desperately we need a DOF to support our next and future managers. MD said neither wanted to sign Sala so what was their plan?

I find myself taking much of what MD says with a huge pinch of salt.

Who should have the power the transfer committee or the manager ? sounds like the manager with tan does , sala might of kept us up tho .

Wasn't we told the Sala money was ring fenced.?

Wasn't we told the Sala money was ring fenced.?

We were from dalman

Wasn't we told the Sala money was ring fenced.?

We were from dalman

Yep, I think one of the posters on this forum with a bit of knowledge of the process/accounts previously mentioned that it would have to be placed in a special account

In terms of overall finances. MD stated categorically that there would be no transfer funds available for not only the January transfer window but also next summer.

As a number of players’ contracts expire this summer it will be challenging for the incumbent manager.



MD reiterated statements he has made in the past that VT has turned down offers to buy the club and restated VT’s wish that, if he does sell, he will wish to part with the club with it in a better position than when he acquired it. MD emphasised throughout how financially reliant the club are on VT.

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Wasn't we told the Sala money was ring fenced.?

We were from dalman

Yes 100% Dalman said in previous statements that the money was put aside and safe and nothing to worry about.
Dalman never sticks to what he ever says and as I have said on previous occasions he is like a MP.

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Slightly disappointing that nobody asked the following question:

If moneys are having to be set aside/safeguarded for these court cases, if we win all of them does that mean the money set aside can be re-invested into the playing side ?

Seems like the obvious question.

Certainly the £15m + costs of any successful Sala case would seem the obvious one, although I accept that could be a few years away yet, particularly if there has to be more litigation following the CAS findings.

No surprises really that we have never managed to kick on despite our promotions and are now in free fall. We are being run by absolute clowns.

After reading all this I really fear for our club

Doesn't paint a very positive picture of the future for our club.

Surprised about putting the boot in to NW regarding Sala because in fairness to the guy in terms of the PL he hardly overspent on players or playing budget and everyone knows we needed a forward. More worrying is his comment on Willi McKay because he is due to give evidence in the Henderson trial this week, will he say he became involved because of an approach by NW.
What price any future action against Nantes then?

One thing is certain it won't matter about no funds for transfers in January or next summer because IF we don't win the CAS case and don't then pay Nantes expect a 2-3 transfer window ban on City signing players by FIFA.

Whatever your view on VT in my opinion having MD & KC making decisions on who the club signs is a massive problem and just highlights how desperately we need a DOF to support our next and future managers. MD said neither wanted to sign Sala so what was their plan?

I find myself taking much of what MD says with a huge pinch of salt.

This, if all true, is sensational and not good for our club. However, like you, I take much of what Boris Dalman says with a pinch of salt

Slating your boss? Wow!

One sure way to be relieved of your duties, so maybe the plan?
Have one (or both) Directors had their fill?

I still find it difficult to believe the whole show is run/dictated by Vincent Tan alone and if that is the case, what is the point of Mehmet Dalman and Ken ChFans present were critical of the level of communication with supporters and MD mentioned the possibility of quarterly online meetings. It was also suggested from the Trust and that an invite be sent to social media outlets such as those who run fan messageboards so that they receive factual updates rather than misleading interpretations that often get posted.oo? None whatsoever in any meaningful terms!

Advance warning of 'no funds' is worrying; particularly as we have few 'saleable' assets amongst the squad, apart from Keiffer Moore, whose 'value' must currently be dropping sharply from the recently agreed £7m with Wolves

Neil Warnock and Emiliano Sala is interesting. If the owner listened to him (Neil) over his own men, then again there is a problem and again, what is their point?

The FC Nantes situation is certainly still 'fluid' and the outcome far from clear, so the apparent removal of set aside funds is something the club/owner need to clarify

Equally, the Willie McKay situation is massively interesting and I can see massive litigation coming towards him (and maybe others)

Interesting times ahead for all connected to the club and (I repeat) if ever there was a time for the owner himself to clarify things, it is now!

Statement please, Mr Tan; and an evaluation of those you have working for you...!

So we are financially reliant on one man. That man is very rich and is liable for all our debt.

Previously we were financially reliant on incoming money including future monies. That of course ran out resulting in multiple court cases risking our liquidation.

I know which position I prefer.

Imagine we were still totally reliant on incoming monies with no gate receipts for ages.

So we are financially reliant on one man. That man is very rich and is liable for all our debt.

Previously we were financially reliant on incoming money including future monies. That of course ran out resulting in multiple court cases risking our liquidation.

I know which position I prefer.

Imagine we were still totally reliant on incoming monies with no gate receipts for ages.

Neil,

Tan is the man who created these new debts and cases on his last 11 yrs in total charge and that’s a fact.
A man who does not give to shits for our club.






Tan's debt to equity promise is the 2nd time he promised but hasn't delivered ( 2013 Tan also promised).

And where is the Sala money?

Debt free in 5 years

What happened to that?

Didn't Tan say it and it’s now 11 yrs and we are worse of in league position, debt bigger and squad weaker, fans fed up and lower crowds all sad facts

Cant believe what I'm reading, VT decides how the team plays, also picks the team unbelievable.


Players contracts won't be renewed no money available in January or next season. One more person to be added to New Manager list Top of the list Vincent Tan.

When calling up what VT is worth and what other Clubs he owns its gets even more baffling. VT RULES OK AND THAT'S THAT. No point in delegating when what he says goes. When checking what he's worth 750 million I feel really sorry for him he's really on skid row better pass the begging bowl around.Having Bern City supporter for over 60 years Iv never know n such a mess in the club.


As Elvis sang as his last song Down Down Down unless something is done and done quickly.

So we are financially reliant on one man. That man is very rich and is liable for all our debt.

Previously we were financially reliant on incoming money including future monies. That of course ran out resulting in multiple court cases risking our liquidation.

I know which position I prefer.

Imagine we were still totally reliant on incoming monies with no gate receipts for ages.

Neil,

I man who created these new debts and cases on his last 11 yrs in total charge and that’s a fact.
A man who does not give to shits for our club.


And where is the Sala money?

It’s all very scary Annis but it was scary when Sam ran us and ran out of money around Black Friday and it was very scary when the Riddler was in charge and had mortgaged our future earnings.

We are used to being scared.

We knew we would have to live within our means one day. That time is now.

As everyone said prefer to be blue in league one or two. We will get that wish. At least we will have a club.

So we are financially reliant on one man. That man is very rich and is liable for all our debt.

Previously we were financially reliant on incoming money including future monies. That of course ran out resulting in multiple court cases risking our liquidation.

I know which position I prefer.

Imagine we were still totally reliant on incoming monies with no gate receipts for ages.

Neil,

I man who created these new debts and cases on his last 11 yrs in total charge and that’s a fact.
A man who does not give to shits for our club.


And where is the Sala money?

It’s all very scary Annis but it was scary when Sam ran us and ran out of money around Black Friday and it was very scary when the Riddler was in charge and had mortgaged our future earnings.

We are used to being scared.

We knew we would have to live within our means one day. That time is now.

As everyone said prefer to be blue in league one or two. We will get that wish. At least we will have a club.

When Sam left Neil we were Top of the Championship and had over £30mill worth of players and £60mill spent on outline planning for new stadium.

Our Accademy was also at its all time best with real quality.


But as usual to change the topic Sam brought in to it.

Tan has been charge for 11 years and it’s now we should concentrate on and Dalman turning on him.

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Cant believe what I'm reading, VT decides how the team plays, also picks the team unbelievable.


Players contracts won't be renewed no money available in January or next season. One more person to be added to New Manager list Top of the list Vincent Tan.

When calling up what VT is worth and what other Clubs he owns its gets even more baffling. VT RULES OK AND THAT'S THAT. No point in delegating when what he says goes. When checking what he's worth 750 million I feel really sorry for him he's really on skid row better pass the begging bowl around.Having Bern City supporter for over 60 years Iv never know n such a mess in the club.


As Elvis sang as his last song Down Down Down unless something is done and done quickly.

Whilst it is a concerning position to you really mean that !!??

I think you may have forgotten the Kumars, Sam, Riddler, etc. All of whom took us to within hours (not days or weeks) of bankruptcy/winding up.

Sam Hamman can do one as well, as for the VT says how we should play football, surely no self respecting manager would let that happen? Would they?

I still think we have a team who are capable of a top half finish, we played well at start of season so what has gone wrong. Watching on the weekend I couldn't help but notice that the players just didn't seem to know how they were supposed to play, Vaulks and Pack seemed to want blame Colwill for everything though he was my MoM. First half against Fulham we should have had two goals and played well.

We say we have no finances well stick with Morrison then until end of season rather than splash out on a new manager, keep those funds for loan players who can add a bit of quality.

I do not know but I think for Dalman to turn up just to sack MM is pretty poor on his behalf, I dont believe he has any interest in this club at all.

Cant believe what I'm reading, VT decides how the team plays, also picks the team unbelievable.


Players contracts won't be renewed no money available in January or next season. One more person to be added to New Manager list Top of the list Vincent Tan.

When calling up what VT is worth and what other Clubs he owns its gets even more baffling. VT RULES OK AND THAT'S THAT. No point in delegating when what he says goes. When checking what he's worth 750 million I feel really sorry for him he's really on skid row better pass the begging bowl around.Having Bern City supporter for over 60 years Iv never know n such a mess in the club.


As Elvis sang as his last song Down Down Down unless something is done and done quickly.

The way things are at the moment I’m taking absolutely everything I hear re city with an enormous pinch of salt.

So we are financially reliant on one man. That man is very rich and is liable for all our debt.

Previously we were financially reliant on incoming money including future monies. That of course ran out resulting in multiple court cases risking our liquidation.

I know which position I prefer.

Imagine we were still totally reliant on incoming monies with no gate receipts for ages.

Neil,

I man who created these new debts and cases on his last 11 yrs in total charge and that’s a fact.
A man who does not give to shits for our club.


And where is the Sala money?

It’s all very scary Annis but it was scary when Sam ran us and ran out of money around Black Friday and it was very scary when the Riddler was in charge and had mortgaged our future earnings.

We are used to being scared.

We knew we would have to live within our means one day. That time is now.

As everyone said prefer to be blue in league one or two. We will get that wish. At least we will have a club.

When Sam left Neil we were Top of the Championship and had over £30mill worth of players and £60mill spent on outline planning for new stadium.

Our Accademy was also at its all time best with real quality.


But as usual to change the topic Sam brought in to it.

Tan has been charge for 11 years and it’s now we should concentrate on and Dalman turning on him.

I’m bringing Sam in to add context Annis. It’s not a new thing us being in a shit financial position. However to answer your points we were top but had a tiny squad that was never gonna stay there once the winter came and our lack of training facilities affected us as it did constantly. Didn’t we finish mid table that year? We were also heavily in debt at the time (relative to assets) and were constantly bringing forward money from the future to pay debts of today. That became more apparent under the Riddler. We were always going to pay for that short sightedness. We are finally attempting to become self sufficient. We have been paying stupid wages for too long.

There were good times under Sam, as there were under Ridsdale and under Tan but don’t make out it was all roses and light under Sam. Piledriver showed up that argument far more eloquently than I could the other day.

As I said we have been expecting this since the red was reversed.

We reap what we sow.

Rather be blue in league two. It was said.