My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:28 pm

maccydee wrote:What was the condition of Ninian Park?

Our club shop. When did it even ever open?


Whatever Hamman did when he took us over was ultimately undone before he left.All the questions you ask have nothing to do with Tan.And your first question right back at yer."Where were we just before Tan arrived."At least we still have a club to argue about. :lol: If Derby don't find the 29m they owe the taxman they'll be wound up,no ifs or buts,or weeping fans will save them.That may well have be us in the past and I don't think we owed anything like 29m.(I can't remember the exact figure)I don't see the point in argueing further as your views are well known though I doubt there giving Tan any sleepless nights.[/quote]



So you never answered my questions :lol: :lol:

I rest my case.

As to saying it was all undone before he left, that was media bullshit 90% of it.

I have seen the facts not the media or hearsay .

But not answering my questions :roll: :roll:


I would of had some respect for you Martin, if you had just answered a few simple questions honestly.

As they say some people hate the truth and you are one of them.

Oh by the way £24mill with a squad worth £32mill left behind and outline planning costing £60mill all passed abd top of the Championship. ALL FACTS :thumbright: :thumbright: :bluebird: :bluebird:[/quote]

I said previously I admire your loyalty to Sam.

However, reading your final comments anyone would think there were no problems prior to or upon Sam leaving which even you know is plain wrong.

What about the the court cases (High and County) for monies owed by Sam’s regime, it was more than 15 at one point and way more over a period of time.

What about the fact that whilst you are correct about the outline planning permission the Cardiff City Council hade made it quite clear that they weren’t taking it any further whilst Sam was in charge as they couldn’t work with him ?

What about Black Friday or having to sell our best players season after season ?

What about HMRC and Winding Up orders ?

The club was a sleeping giant and Sam kicked it back to life, of that there can be no doubt. He should always be credited with that.

However, his time was up and Cardiff City may well have gone out of business if he hadn’t gone.

As I have said before. Let’s not re-write history, Sam stayed too long and we very nearly lost the club that we ALL love because of that.

By the way, for balance, Tan didn’t actually save us either in my opinion. Even after Sam went we were still up to our necks in debt, but it was when TG got involved things started to stabilise and he brought in Tan to dig us out of the financial hole we were in.

Whilst Tan is in charge we are financially stable as he has the finance to keep us, at least, alive.[/quote]


Sam ran out of funds due to Riddler , PMG etc back stabbing him and stopping him having the stadium .
Season after season selling players????????
One season and before Sam came we never even had players worth anything.

The ones you should be blaming are Paul Guy and Mike Hall who made over £100mill. Walked away not with a care in the world for our club.
But you don’t mention them because you only read the media lies.

HMRC never were a problem under Sam a fact???[/quote]

You are quite right to pull me up on not mentioning PMG and the Riddler, probably best I don't say what I think about them as they would probably claim it's libellous !! But I don't disagree with you on that point for sure.



Remember Sam left a squad worth beyond £millions and a club top of the Championship and all outline planing for the new stadium.


This current debt we have is made by Tan, No one else. He has controlled our club for nearly 12 years .


Sam admits he made mistakes.


Tan continues to let idiots run our club.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

How much was that squad really worth?

They finished 13th that season. Never were going to stay up the top. No squad depth sadly as players like Earnie, Collins, Kav, Gabbiadon, Thorne had been sold. Where did that money go?

Again it was an absolute amazing ride under Sam but squad wise we were a lot poorer than we had been even 18 months before. We were still in Ninian Park, debt vs assets meant we were in a precarious position financially.

Absolutely PMG fucked Sam over. But they were only able to because of the mistakes Sam admitted he made. Very, very sad as had we made the premier league when we had Earnie, Gabbs etc I think we really could have built something lasting. Companies would have been gagging to get a spot near a premier league ground and the council wouldn’t have been so easily influenced by PMG
.[/quote]

Very much how I see it :thumbup:
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby ealing_ayatollah » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:15 pm

One thing that may play a factor in next seasons recruitment may be if we evolve in the latter half of this season into a side trying to play attractive football that has an emphasis on giving youth a chance. If we are seen to be doing a good job blooding our own youngsters then I would imagine we would become a much more attractive prospect for the big clubs when it comes to sending us their starlets.

The amount of money in the top end of the game now, even with a billionaire owner we can't compete by splashing the cash (remember season under Malky we incredibly were one of the top spenders). An alternative is the model Brentford have adopted which is to identify the hidden gems, but not many clubs can do that and it took the Bees a long time to get good at that right back to Uwe Rossler days - and with the money outside of a small group of elite clubs become restricted, more clubs will be fighting in the same pond.

So the third (and most sensible option for me) is to grab the sudden momentum we have built with the youth coming through and take the opportunity to establish a playing culture across all age levels - this is a rare opportunity that we find ourselves in to be able to try and build the right foundations for a sustainable future. It sounds like the majority of elements are in place, we just need to join the dots.

The most important aspect of that though will be managing fans expectations. I for one would be happy to hear from the board that they have a long-term vision for the club in place rather than bland claims that we are aiming for the top six while spending over-inflated prices on middle of the road players - and I think many would agree as long as the club are honest in their intentions, set realistic goals and we are seeing progress towards those goals.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby City slicker27 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:21 pm

It is a concern with so many regulars out of contract but I am less concerned than I was a few weeks ago. Under Mick we looked incapable of stringing a few passes together never mind winning a game. We were also pushing youth into a system they were always going to fail in. Still a long way to go but you Cant fault what morison has done in such a short space of time with the same limited group of players.

No money to spend does not mean we will not bring anyone in next season. Pack, ralls, vaulks, Murphy, vassel, flint and morrison are all out of contract next season. Thats easily 100k a week in wages. We can probably replace the players that are needed for a lot less than that and have a more balanced squad that is better suited to morisons football. Recruitment is going to be crucial over the summer.

The situation has been forced but its what a lot of people have been moaning about for a long time. Better football, youth given a chance, bringing wages down etc. Persobally, I think things are looking up and I am actually looking forward to going to a game again, which hasn't been the case for a long time now.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby maccydee » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:21 pm

We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:48 pm

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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Bluebina » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:03 pm

Who would buy a football club, you'd have to be a complete lunatic, every owner we've ever had has been hammered by the majority of fans, and any future ones will get the same :laughing6:
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:34 pm

maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.





Neil,

The best and most sensible post on here :thumbright: :bluebird: but I don’t agree with everything about Tan you’ve said :lol: some I do though :thumbup: :ayatollah:


I am very loyal to Sam, but if he has done wrong I will say it and yes he made mistakes, but his love for Cardiff City is unbelievable.

Your right he made threats and rightly so after he was stabbed in the back numerous times and who would not off, but he was never going to pull the trigger.

The latest court case is All Tans doing as he personally signed to it, agreed it etc etc


If Tan had not done the Rebrand and employed so many fools / idiots over the years I would look differently at him, but he continues with this farce of a Committee.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 pm

maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


:thumbup: :ayatollah: We just want to balance the argument because neither side is squeaky clean on this.

I just find it slightly disappointing that even at a point where things on the pitch are possibly more positive than for years we're still discussing the merits of a previous owner against a present day one.

The owner isn't changing anytime soon (despite some people being desperate for that) and therefore I'd much rather discuss how Morison and his troops are doing because, ultimately, that's what really matters to most of us.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:49 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


:thumbup: :ayatollah: We just want to balance the argument because neither side is squeaky clean on this.

I just find it slightly disappointing that even at a point where things on the pitch are possibly more positive than for years we're still discussing the merits of a previous owner against a present day one.

The owner isn't changing anytime soon (despite some people being desperate for that) and therefore I'd much rather discuss how Morison and his troops are doing because, ultimately, that's what really matters to most of us.




The Topic was about now and what the future plans could be :bluebird:

And yes plans should be in place for the good hope your even if it went wrong .
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Whistler » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:52 pm

What the hell does this conversation have to do with Cardiff City in the here and now! we cannot undo the past all we can hope for is this are going to get better, and support the efforts being made by everyone on the pitch, in the club and in the stands. lets remember the FAW watch word "TOGETHER STRONGER" :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah: :ayatollah:
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:00 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


:thumbup: :ayatollah: We just want to balance the argument because neither side is squeaky clean on this.

I just find it slightly disappointing that even at a point where things on the pitch are possibly more positive than for years we're still discussing the merits of a previous owner against a present day one.

The owner isn't changing anytime soon (despite some people being desperate for that) and therefore I'd much rather discuss how Morison and his troops are doing because, ultimately, that's what really matters to most of us.




The Topic was about now and what the future plans could be :bluebird:

And yes plans should be in place for the good hope your even if it went wrong .


Yep I hope I would be too !!

But if it goes wrong it doesn't mean that appointing Morison was wrong as most would agree, right now, it was a good appointment.

Truth be told, none of us really know about the finances other than stuff that is publicly declared; we can just use our own minds to come to a, hopefully, accurate position on the position.

Let's hope it all turns out positively.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:24 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


:thumbup: :ayatollah: We just want to balance the argument because neither side is squeaky clean on this.

I just find it slightly disappointing that even at a point where things on the pitch are possibly more positive than for years we're still discussing the merits of a previous owner against a present day one.

The owner isn't changing anytime soon (despite some people being desperate for that) and therefore I'd much rather discuss how Morison and his troops are doing because, ultimately, that's what really matters to most of us.




The Topic was about now and what the future plans could be :bluebird:

And yes plans should be in place for the good hope your even if it went wrong .


Yep I hope I would be too !!

But if it goes wrong it doesn't mean that appointing Morison was wrong as most would agree, right now, it was a good appointment.

Truth be told, none of us really know about the finances other than stuff that is publicly declared; we can just use our own minds to come to a, hopefully, accurate position on the position.

Let's hope it all turns out positively.




For me it was the best appointment as we have NO money and Morison knows the youth and first team better than anyone and I would love him to be here for years :thumbright: :thumbright: :bluebird: :bluebird:
Annis Jnr Author and Publisher of 7 Books.

My 7th Book is Available Now "MY STORY"

http://www.annisabraham.co.uk/books/buy-books/
http://www.annisabraham.co.uk/news/

My email : annisabraham@aol.com
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:34 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


:thumbup: :ayatollah: We just want to balance the argument because neither side is squeaky clean on this.

I just find it slightly disappointing that even at a point where things on the pitch are possibly more positive than for years we're still discussing the merits of a previous owner against a present day one.

The owner isn't changing anytime soon (despite some people being desperate for that) and therefore I'd much rather discuss how Morison and his troops are doing because, ultimately, that's what really matters to most of us.




The Topic was about now and what the future plans could be :bluebird:

And yes plans should be in place for the good hope your even if it went wrong .


Yep I hope I would be too !!

But if it goes wrong it doesn't mean that appointing Morison was wrong as most would agree, right now, it was a good appointment.

Truth be told, none of us really know about the finances other than stuff that is publicly declared; we can just use our own minds to come to a, hopefully, accurate position on the position.

Let's hope it all turns out positively.




For me it was the best appointment as we have NO money and Morison knows the youth and first team better than anyone and I would love him to be here for years :thumbright: :thumbright: :bluebird: :bluebird:


I wholeheartedly agree with you on that :thumbright: Onwards and upwards ........................ hopefully :roll: :lol:
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:38 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


:thumbup: :ayatollah: We just want to balance the argument because neither side is squeaky clean on this.

I just find it slightly disappointing that even at a point where things on the pitch are possibly more positive than for years we're still discussing the merits of a previous owner against a present day one.

The owner isn't changing anytime soon (despite some people being desperate for that) and therefore I'd much rather discuss how Morison and his troops are doing because, ultimately, that's what really matters to most of us.




The Topic was about now and what the future plans could be :bluebird:

And yes plans should be in place for the good hope your even if it went wrong .


Yep I hope I would be too !!

But if it goes wrong it doesn't mean that appointing Morison was wrong as most would agree, right now, it was a good appointment.

Truth be told, none of us really know about the finances other than stuff that is publicly declared; we can just use our own minds to come to a, hopefully, accurate position on the position.

Let's hope it all turns out positively.




For me it was the best appointment as we have NO money and Morison knows the youth and first team better than anyone and I would love him to be here for years :thumbright: :thumbright: :bluebird: :bluebird:


I wholeheartedly agree with you on that :thumbright: Onwards and upwards ........................ hopefully :roll: :lol:




:lol: :bluebird: :bluebird: :bluebird: :thumbright: :thumbright: :thumbright:
Annis Jnr Author and Publisher of 7 Books.

My 7th Book is Available Now "MY STORY"

http://www.annisabraham.co.uk/books/buy-books/
http://www.annisabraham.co.uk/news/

My email : annisabraham@aol.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/annisabraham
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby troobloo3339 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:48 pm

Forever Blue wrote:
troobloo3339 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Barclay1 wrote: I'd honestly say, the Tan years were not as good as the Sam years.


If you're right in the head I don't wanna be.



In My eyes and many others their have been NO real good years under Tan the minute he stripped us of our identity and divided our fam base.

Plus Our debt is way way higher than when he arrived , less crowds , lower league position and a Committee not even knowing what’s happening at our football club still.

Strange you were all over the malky promotion as being great
And ive been told from a good source that tans debt is down.to £62 million so he must have reduced our debt to him considerably by cutting costs and the parachute payments ??? Hmmm




I was for Malky and still am, never changed.

Steve , I just told you on the phone the debt :lol:

Also I just found a video of you singing for Malky against Tan on one of Carlos away trips :lol: :thumbright: :bluescarf:

I was a brilliant mime artist in the years gone by
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Forever Blue » Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:27 pm

troobloo3339 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
troobloo3339 wrote:
Forever Blue wrote:
Sneggyblubird wrote:
Barclay1 wrote: I'd honestly say, the Tan years were not as good as the Sam years.


If you're right in the head I don't wanna be.



In My eyes and many others their have been NO real good years under Tan the minute he stripped us of our identity and divided our fam base.

Plus Our debt is way way higher than when he arrived , less crowds , lower league position and a Committee not even knowing what’s happening at our football club still.

Strange you were all over the malky promotion as being great
And ive been told from a good source that tans debt is down.to £62 million so he must have reduced our debt to him considerably by cutting costs and the parachute payments ??? Hmmm




I was for Malky and still am, never changed.

Steve , I just told you on the phone the debt :lol:

Also I just found a video of you singing for Malky against Tan on one of Carlos away trips :lol: :thumbright: :bluescarf:

I was a brilliant mime artist in the years gone by





:lol: :lol: :thumbright: :ayatollah: :bluescarf:
Annis Jnr Author and Publisher of 7 Books.

My 7th Book is Available Now "MY STORY"

http://www.annisabraham.co.uk/books/buy-books/
http://www.annisabraham.co.uk/news/

My email : annisabraham@aol.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/annisabraham
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Barclay1 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:37 am

maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


Fair enough then.....
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby maccydee » Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:40 am

Barclay1 wrote:
maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


Fair enough then.....


Thanks Barclay. Your words touch my heart. Onwards and upwards and all that.
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Re: My View: The Important Worrying Question Is

Postby Bakedalasker » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:02 pm

maccydee wrote:We see things very similarly Mr Driver.

The way I see it there are distinct sides in this debate.

There are some who will never, ever agree anything that Tan has done is any good. I’ve said it before if he cured cancer they would say bet he has been sat on that for ages.

Some are blind and pretty stupid and actually make no sense (Ninian 27, Barclay) and aren’t really worth debating with. At least with Annis you can debate him because he absolutely knows his stuff albeit he is very anti Tan. He has never said differently. He also is very loyal to Sam and that’s commendable. Sam is his good friend and that’s probably the best thing about Annis as anyone who has spent time with him or spoke to him on the phone will agree with.

Me and you and others are far more balanced. I cannot say that Tan hasn’t made mistakes, as I cannot say Sam didn’t. Both trusted the wrong people.

Tan trusted Dalman to look after his club while he dealt with matters close to home. As a significant person in Malaysia of course he is going to be expected to do that.

Sam trusted PMG and Ridsdale and they turned out to be after their own interests rather than Sam’s or indeed Cardiff City’s. It’s no coincidence that the council stopped dealing with Sam but would deal with PMG and they are the ones who made the money out of the stadium and retail outlet. Plans envisaged by Sam. Yes Sam made threats after he was ousted, but let’s be honest, who wouldn’t in his position? It was a slight on him and absolutely he was right to get what was his.

When Dalman’s expenses are discussed it’s ignored that Sam’s management company also did this. It was also loans that financed our climb up the table into the championship on that ride we all loved. However, no one else was prepared to do that and there had to be equity for Sam to do that so without him there wouldn’t have been the ride we enjoyed. For that I will always think fondly of him. But when he left, while we were far better off on the pitch off it we weren’t. It’s no point going over that again.

Tan has stabilised us and as the debt is his responsibility then we are far better off than we ever have been. That is simply a fact. We are now having a tough time as we aim to live within our means. This is something we have wanted apparently. But still Tan gets stick. He’s damned if he does, damned it he doesn’t.

My biggest three regrets over the last 20 years are;

1) when we were on our charge we didn’t get into the premier league. With Sam in charge, one season at Ninian it would have been class. Might have kept our best players and developed into something. Council would have had to deal with Sam and companies would have been fighting over the retail space.

2) when Tan decided to go for it he didn’t replace Malky with a manager who would have got us more suited for the premier league. The money Malky got to spend and to do it so badly was a massive f**k up. A better manager would have built a championship winning squad ready for the premier league and with 50 million extra a mid table prem side.

3) that Sam and Tan didn’t stay on the same page and become a dream team partnership. Imagine Sam doing Dalman’s role? Would have been class and a match made in whatever heaven you believe in.

I have spoken.


Very good read that Neil.

That 3rd note about Sam doing Dalmans job for me would have been ideal. To a degree, dare I say it, I feel Ridsdale would have been a better choice than Dalman. Problem is this was never going to happen because Tan comes from a culture where they keep things close to home. If Malaysia had an outstanding football record I believe we would have 11 of them playing for us.
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