petition for referendum welsh devolution

A forum for all things Cardiff City

petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby litoblues » Sat Jan 08, 2022 9:32 am

https://petition.parliament.uk/petition ... atures/new

please support this petition..its time to remove the money wasting senydd..which is destroying our livelihoods in wales
litoblues
 
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:42 pm

petition for referendum welsh devolution

Advertisement

Advertisement
Login or Register to remove this ad.

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby jimmy_rat » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:10 am

Absolutely.

However, most people don't care enough to sign this. And they'll moan about all things wrong and still blame Boris. But they'll continue to vote red in Wales. (Insert facepalm emoji)
User avatar
jimmy_rat
 
Posts: 3668
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:21 pm
Location: Cheshire

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Sven » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:37 am

jimmy_rat wrote:Absolutely.

However, most people don't care enough to sign this. And they'll moan about all things wrong and still blame Boris. But they'll continue to vote red in Wales. (Insert facepalm emoji)

Agree! :clap:

Just over 2,200 signatures at point of signing and (hopefully) a lot more to come... :ayatollah:
"Recreational offence". In short, if you're the kind of person who spends valuable time looking to be offended, it's offensive.
User avatar
Sven
Moderator
 
Posts: 22684
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby ThomasC » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:43 am

What was packaged as Welsh 'freedom' through devolving power took a sinister turn. My opinion
User avatar
ThomasC
 
Posts: 5654
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:38 am

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Sven » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:53 am

ThomasC wrote:What was packaged as Welsh 'freedom' through devolving power took a sinister turn. My opinion

Was always going to be the case...

Get signing! :ayatollah:
"Recreational offence". In short, if you're the kind of person who spends valuable time looking to be offended, it's offensive.
User avatar
Sven
Moderator
 
Posts: 22684
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Big Hill Blue » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:16 pm

I've signed...and so has my missus
Big Hill Blue
 
Posts: 1915
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:27 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby biglad6 » Sat Jan 08, 2022 2:52 pm

Up to nearly 2,500 now need 100,000 to force a debate in parliament
biglad6
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:32 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby stickywicket » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:42 pm

No chance. It's a good idea. We just need better politicians.
Who on earth would want to be ruled by the likes of Blair and Johnson?
Why not give the English a referendum on whether they want to carry on subsidising the Wales, Scotland and N. I.?
User avatar
stickywicket
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:59 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Sven » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:03 pm

stickywicket wrote:No chance. It's a good idea. We just need better politicians.
Who on earth would want to be ruled by the likes of Blair and Johnson?
Why not give the English a referendum on whether they want to carry on subsidising the Wales, Scotland and N. I.?

I guess that's the debate; but I would add that 'the English' had no issues stripping Wales (and other countries) of its assets over many years

A properly run 'Welsh Office' (still in existence) would suffice and the politicians running to would be of a far better standard, have more credibility and at least be answerable for some of their incredulous decisions

A 'free' Wales would struggle in any stretch of the imagination; unless it aligned itself to the EU once again which makes it no better (and potentially worse) than being part of the UK

Just my opinion, of course, and I will say that not everything WAG (nee Labour) have done in Wales has been bad; but I believe that overall they have not been 'value for money' and my opinion is one borne out of experience and watching the the antics of a one-party Sendedd that considers its needy self rather than the genuine needs of the people, their jobs. security and well-being
"Recreational offence". In short, if you're the kind of person who spends valuable time looking to be offended, it's offensive.
User avatar
Sven
Moderator
 
Posts: 22684
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby CF11 Rondo » Sat Jan 08, 2022 4:22 pm

What result do you actually expect to happen if there was a referendum? Abolish the Welsh Assembly party got ~2% of the votes in the 2021 Senedd elections.
CF11 Rondo
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Sven » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:24 pm

CF11 Rondo wrote:What result do you actually expect to happen if there was a referendum? Abolish the Welsh Assembly party got ~2% of the votes in the 2021 Senedd elections.

That's not quite the same as an straight choice ballot, is it? :?:

So what 'result' do you expect under your circumstances? :thumbright:
"Recreational offence". In short, if you're the kind of person who spends valuable time looking to be offended, it's offensive.
User avatar
Sven
Moderator
 
Posts: 22684
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:35 pm

Voting for a single issue, presently fringe party during a pandemic was always going to be a challenge but that doesn’t mean people dislike their core belief. The assembly ticked over rather impotently for a while. Covid has created havoc because it’s given drakeford a platform he could have only dreamt of. Devolution gives a disproportionately high representation to separatist groups who use it to organise aggressively against any dissent on social media while over egging the support they have in the wider community
welshrarebit
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:39 pm

Sven wrote:
CF11 Rondo wrote:What result do you actually expect to happen if there was a referendum? Abolish the Welsh Assembly party got ~2% of the votes in the 2021 Senedd elections.

That's not quite the same as an straight choice ballot, is it? :?:

So what 'result' do you expect under your circumstances? :thumbright:


Anecdotal I know. But I know few who actually like the sennedd. Those that do mostly like it because they hate Boris.
welshrarebit
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby rumpo kid » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:50 pm

It should also state that if the Senedd remains, England stops funding Wales. Seems fair enough. Yes Cymru can draw up the new budget.
rumpo kid
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:58 pm

rumpo kid wrote:It should also state that if the Senedd remains, England stops funding Wales. Seems fair enough. Yes Cymru can draw up the new budget.


Most of the money woikd go on forced language camps to learn welsh!!
welshrarebit
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby CF11 Rondo » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:12 pm

Sven wrote:
CF11 Rondo wrote:What result do you actually expect to happen if there was a referendum? Abolish the Welsh Assembly party got ~2% of the votes in the 2021 Senedd elections.

That's not quite the same as an straight choice ballot, is it? :?:

So what 'result' do you expect under your circumstances? :thumbright:


Of course it’s isn’t the same but that doesn’t just mean it should be dismissed. Do you think 48% of voters in Wales, who voted for a different political party when Abolish was an option, would then vote Abolish in a referendum? After nearly 3 weeks this poll is on ~2.5k signatures, the previous time this petition ran it gained less than 9k signatures before expiring.

There’s a government petition to have trains from Trowbridge to London with nearly 3x as many signatures.

I’m not sure what you mean by my circumstances but if you mean in a referendum then I’d expect “Keep” would get more votes than “Abolish”.
CF11 Rondo
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:18 pm

If there were to be one then the alternative needs to be compelling for the swing voters. Fortunately the infrastructure still exists in the welsh office. But I suspect an alternative approach woikd be needed so the largest party has more input in welsh only matters. If the largest party is not the main uk party then they could appoint a “head” so to speak.

That wouldn’t cost as much as the sennedd does but probably have similar powers.
welshrarebit
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Sven » Sat Jan 08, 2022 7:50 pm

CF11 Rondo wrote:
Sven wrote:
CF11 Rondo wrote:What result do you actually expect to happen if there was a referendum? Abolish the Welsh Assembly party got ~2% of the votes in the 2021 Senedd elections.

That's not quite the same as an straight choice ballot, is it? :?:

So what 'result' do you expect under your circumstances? :thumbright:


Of course it’s isn’t the same but that doesn’t just mean it should be dismissed. Do you think 48% of voters in Wales, who voted for a different political party when Abolish was an option, would then vote Abolish in a referendum? After nearly 3 weeks this poll is on ~2.5k signatures, the previous time this petition ran it gained less than 9k signatures before expiring.

There’s a government petition to have trains from Trowbridge to London with nearly 3x as many signatures.

I’m not sure what you mean by my circumstances but if you mean in a referendum then I’d expect “Keep” would get more votes than “Abolish”.

Yes, I meant referendum and I think you'd be surprised at the numbers who have lost faith in WAG, if they had any previously

A 'swing' of just 2% would see WAG gone; not that they would ever allow the people to haveca say after Brexit...
"Recreational offence". In short, if you're the kind of person who spends valuable time looking to be offended, it's offensive.
User avatar
Sven
Moderator
 
Posts: 22684
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby stickywicket » Sat Jan 08, 2022 11:53 pm

Most people have got more pressing things to worry about.
50% rise in fuel prices. Inflation rising to 6%.Tax rises.
Interest rates starting to rise.
When people come out of fixed rate mortgages there might well be in for a surprise.
This will further the nationalist.
User avatar
stickywicket
 
Posts: 2568
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:59 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby CF11 Rondo » Sun Jan 09, 2022 5:58 pm

Sven wrote:
CF11 Rondo wrote:
Sven wrote:
CF11 Rondo wrote:What result do you actually expect to happen if there was a referendum? Abolish the Welsh Assembly party got ~2% of the votes in the 2021 Senedd elections.

That's not quite the same as an straight choice ballot, is it? :?:

So what 'result' do you expect under your circumstances? :thumbright:


Of course it’s isn’t the same but that doesn’t just mean it should be dismissed. Do you think 48% of voters in Wales, who voted for a different political party when Abolish was an option, would then vote Abolish in a referendum? After nearly 3 weeks this poll is on ~2.5k signatures, the previous time this petition ran it gained less than 9k signatures before expiring.

There’s a government petition to have trains from Trowbridge to London with nearly 3x as many signatures.

I’m not sure what you mean by my circumstances but if you mean in a referendum then I’d expect “Keep” would get more votes than “Abolish”.

Yes, I meant referendum and I think you'd be surprised at the numbers who have lost faith in WAG, if they had any previously

A 'swing' of just 2% would see WAG gone; not that they would ever allow the people to haveca say after Brexit...


I’m sure plenty of people have lost faith in the WAG, it wouldn’t surprise me though to see people previously ambivalent or on the fence to have changed their mind in support of the WAG when the alternative is the Conservatives and Westminster. In the 2021 election Labour increased their votes by a pretty decent chunk.

As for a 2% swing, are you on about the original referendum? Or am I misunderstood? Because that was 25 years ago so hardly an accurate measure of how today’s population would vote.
CF11 Rondo
 
Posts: 113
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Einstein » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:25 pm

What have the WAG ever done for us... Free prescriptions... Welsh NHS is a shambles ..

Honest replies?

For wanting independence... An economy is built on tax revenues, where are they coming from?
User avatar
Einstein
 
Posts: 1291
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:43 am

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby rumpo kid » Sun Jan 09, 2022 6:46 pm

THe Get Drakeford Out petition is the hot one.. the far left shouldn’t be anywhere near that place.
rumpo kid
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:24 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Sun Jan 09, 2022 7:20 pm

All it’s done is cost millions more for new people do jobs previously done by people who still have the same jobs with less to do.

It’s given quite a nasty element of society an inflated platform to abuse anyone who disagrees with them. Just see what the yes cymru lot do on Twitter and the wales online pages.

It’s forced us to have bilingual correspondence if we want it or not.

A sensible option would be a central database where your preference is recorded … English. Welsh. Both.

It’s allowed people to force divisions between us and the rest of the uk.

It forces my children to use a gcse option for welsh language whether they want to or not. For clarity I don’t have an issue with it compulsory prior to national exams. But I do have an issue with it being compulsory for gcse. The argument is it’s good for kids to learn languages. Yep. So why does that language have to be welsh?

Oddly it’s allowed the nhs to be mismanaged by labour for 20 years yet the conservatives still get the blame for it. Those early years was completely managed by labour!

Covid is on one hand shining a light on it but because Boris clearly misjudged the situation in March 2020 he’s given mark drakeford free reign and when politicians get a sniff of power they start taking more. If he is “denied” it the optics are bad for Westminster so he basically cracks on.
welshrarebit
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:42 am

Sven wrote:
stickywicket wrote:No chance. It's a good idea. We just need better politicians.
Who on earth would want to be ruled by the likes of Blair and Johnson?
Why not give the English a referendum on whether they want to carry on subsidising the Wales, Scotland and N. I.?

I guess that's the debate; but I would add that 'the English' had no issues stripping Wales (and other countries) of its assets over many years

A properly run 'Welsh Office' (still in existence) would suffice and the politicians running to would be of a far better standard, have more credibility and at least be answerable for some of their incredulous decisions

A 'free' Wales would struggle in any stretch of the imagination; unless it aligned itself to the EU once again which makes it no better (and potentially worse) than being part of the UK

Just my opinion, of course, and I will say that not everything WAG (nee Labour) have done in Wales has been bad; but I believe that overall they have not been 'value for money' and my opinion is one borne out of experience and watching the the antics of a one-party Sendedd that considers its needy self rather than the genuine needs of the people, their jobs. security and well-being

Mate can we bin this “the English stripped Wales of its assets ” Bute was Scottish and the average English worker didn’t have an easier life than a Welsh one. The people who benefitted (from empire) were the Mike Ashley’s and Phillip Greens of their day.
Jock
 
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:49 am

welshrarebit wrote:All it’s done is cost millions more for new people do jobs previously done by people who still have the same jobs with less to do.

It’s given quite a nasty element of society an inflated platform to abuse anyone who disagrees with them. Just see what the yes cymru lot do on Twitter and the wales online pages.

It’s forced us to have bilingual correspondence if we want it or not.

A sensible option would be a central database where your preference is recorded … English. Welsh. Both.

It’s allowed people to force divisions between us and the rest of the uk.

It forces my children to use a gcse option for welsh language whether they want to or not. For clarity I don’t have an issue with it compulsory prior to national exams. But I do have an issue with it being compulsory for gcse. The argument is it’s good for kids to learn languages. Yep. So why does that language have to be welsh?

Oddly it’s allowed the nhs to be mismanaged by labour for 20 years yet the conservatives still get the blame for it. Those early years was completely managed by labour!

Covid is on one hand shining a light on it but because Boris clearly misjudged the situation in March 2020 he’s given mark drakeford free reign and when politicians get a sniff of power they start taking more. If he is “denied” it the optics are bad for Westminster so he basically cracks on.

The force feeding of the Welsh language really boils my piss, it holds Wales back and it costs a fortune. However it helps to create difference and helps the Natz push to secede, Krankies mob have adopted the Plaid model in Scotland for the same reasons, road signs etc in Gaelic and opening Gaelic schools in the Central Belt, an area where Gaelic’s never been spoken, ironically a version of Welsh was spoken there till the 10th/11th century.
Jock
 
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:00 am

Agreed jock.

If you dare have a dissenting voice they have an organised pile on against you calling you all the names under the sun.

No one has been able yet to explain to me what we need to be independent from. Boris? He will be gone soon. Tories? Wales isn’t as socialist as they think it is. There are a hell of a lot of people with non left wing views. All it takes is a charismatic leader and policies that chime with the electorate.

Wales has had control over many areas of policy for years and we still have major problems. I’m intrigued as to why even more power would make things better but with a smaller taxation base.
welshrarebit
 
Posts: 1184
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:34 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Bluebina » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:03 am

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.
Bluebina
 
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:32 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:17 am

welshrarebit wrote:Agreed jock.

If you dare have a dissenting voice they have an organised pile on against you calling you all the names under the sun.

No one has been able yet to explain to me what we need to be independent from. Boris? He will be gone soon. Tories? Wales isn’t as socialist as they think it is. There are a hell of a lot of people with non left wing views. All it takes is a charismatic leader and policies that chime with the electorate.

Wales has had control over many areas of policy for years and we still have major problems. I’m intrigued as to why even more power would make things better but with a smaller taxation base.

Seems all politics are going that way, if you don’t agree you’re branded a Nazi or a Facist. Independence in Wales or indeed Scotland seems to be more about misty eyed patriotism than pragmatism.
Jock
 
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:49 am

Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and most vote for Labour because of the miners strike" . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?
piledriver64
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Bluebina » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:09 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote: and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and " . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?



I didn't say that did I, perhaps you need people to put two statements in separate sentences?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics, whoever they vote for.

A majority of people will consistently vote Labour because of their hatred of Margaret Thatcher and the miners strike, rather than considering the state of the welsh NHS and that it gets overwhelmed with an average flu year in winter, let alone covid-19.
Bluebina
 
Posts: 12308
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:32 pm

Next


Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bakedalasker, Bluebird For Life, bluebirdoct1962, BluebirdsTilIDie, boyo1927, Clusterman, cmorris1927, D.A.C., danielrees17, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], J1927, philrogers, smakerzthebluebird, stickywicket, tonyinthai and 326 guests

Disclaimer :
The views and comments entered in these forums are personal and are not necessarily those of the management of this board.
The management of this board is not responsible for the content of any external internet sites.