petition for referendum welsh devolution

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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:12 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and most vote for Labour because of the miners strike" . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?

The old historical ties are no more, Labour long since stopped being the party of working class people and talking of condescension, check the comments pages in the Guardian or the Independent to see how the new middle class socialists view traditional Labour voters. Labour are all Trans rights and diversity they offer nothing else. Boris is a zoomer but seriously Drakeford?
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:30 pm

Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote: and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and " . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?



I didn't say that did I, perhaps you need people to put two statements in separate sentences?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics, whoever they vote for.

A majority of people will consistently vote Labour because of their hatred of Margaret Thatcher and the miners strike, rather than considering the state of the welsh NHS and that it gets overwhelmed with an average flu year in winter, let alone covid-19.


Absolute rubbish, re-wording it hasn't changed a jot :roll: :o

So anyone voting for Labour is based on a historical loyalty or even hatred of hatred of Margaret Thatcher :roll: :lol:

Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !?

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting :banghead:

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your blue sunglasses !!
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Bluebina » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:42 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote: and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and " . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?



I didn't say that did I, perhaps you need people to put two statements in separate sentences?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics, whoever they vote for.

A majority of people will consistently vote Labour because of their hatred of Margaret Thatcher and the miners strike, rather than considering the state of the welsh NHS and that it gets overwhelmed with an average flu year in winter, let alone covid-19.


Absolute rubbish, re-wording it hasn't changed a jot :roll: :o


Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !?

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting :banghead:

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your blue sunglasses !!


Absolute nonsense :laughing6:

So anyone voting for Labour is based on a historical loyalty or even hatred of hatred of Margaret Thatcher -

Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting - Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !? I don't think so, no one has ever said that to me, but plenty have gone into rage about Thatcher, and I understand why!

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your red sunglasses !!

Are you happy that we can't go to football, or to the bar in a pub because of party politics and because our NHS is so fragile it can't cope with a 10% increase in capacity?

In England they can by the way and their NHS is coping well, and they haven't been locked down so tight that they have to say within five miles of there house for months on end!
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:58 pm

Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote: and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and " . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?



I didn't say that did I, perhaps you need people to put two statements in separate sentences?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics, whoever they vote for.

A majority of people will consistently vote Labour because of their hatred of Margaret Thatcher and the miners strike, rather than considering the state of the welsh NHS and that it gets overwhelmed with an average flu year in winter, let alone covid-19.


Absolute rubbish, re-wording it hasn't changed a jot :roll: :o


Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !?

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting :banghead:

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your blue sunglasses !!


Absolute nonsense :laughing6:

So anyone voting for Labour is based on a historical loyalty or even hatred of hatred of Margaret Thatcher -

Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting - Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !? I don't think so, no one has ever said that to me, but plenty have gone into rage about Thatcher, and I understand why!

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your red sunglasses !!

Are you happy that we can't go to football, or to the bar in a pub because of party politics and because our NHS is so fragile it can't cope with a 10% increase in capacity?

In England they can by the way and their NHS is coping well, and they haven't been locked down so tight that they have to say within five miles of there house for months on end!


No I'm not happy about any of that but I certainly won't dismiss the democratically elected government as one that has been elected by people who haven't got a clue what they voted for which is exactly what you're doing.

By the way, if you really think the Tories are covering themselves in glory in England at the moment then crack on :laughing5:

That's the problem I've got with your dismissive, condescending attitude.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Bluebina » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:35 pm

piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote: and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and " . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?



I didn't say that did I, perhaps you need people to put two statements in separate sentences?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics, whoever they vote for.

A majority of people will consistently vote Labour because of their hatred of Margaret Thatcher and the miners strike, rather than considering the state of the welsh NHS and that it gets overwhelmed with an average flu year in winter, let alone covid-19.


Absolute rubbish, re-wording it hasn't changed a jot :roll: :o


Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !?

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting :banghead:

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your blue sunglasses !!


Absolute nonsense :laughing6:

So anyone voting for Labour is based on a historical loyalty or even hatred of hatred of Margaret Thatcher -

Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting - Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !? I don't think so, no one has ever said that to me, but plenty have gone into rage about Thatcher, and I understand why!

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your red sunglasses !!

Are you happy that we can't go to football, or to the bar in a pub because of party politics and because our NHS is so fragile it can't cope with a 10% increase in capacity?

In England they can by the way and their NHS is coping well, and they haven't been locked down so tight that they have to say within five miles of there house for months on end!


No I'm not happy about any of that but I certainly won't dismiss the democratically elected government as one that has been elected by people who haven't got a clue what they voted for which is exactly what you're doing.

By the way, if you really think the Tories are covering themselves in glory in England at the moment then crack on :laughing5:

That's the problem I've got with your dismissive, condescending attitude.


How about yours attitude, you go into one because some disagreed with your opinion! I was just stating it as I see it from working and speaking to people in England and Wales for the last 40 years. A lot of people in Wales didn't have a basic understanding of devolution and didn't realise the power they were unleashing on incompetent politicians, Boris is a clown but their economy, road infrastructure and NHS are in a far healthier position than ours in Wales!

I'm not bothered about party's and gatherings or what happened forty years ago, I'm concerned about state of the welsh economy and a leader restricting peoples lives while failing to try and prove a point!
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby stickywicket » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:52 pm

Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.

Genius .:occasion5: :occasion5: :occasion5: :occasion5:
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:51 pm

Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Bluebina wrote: and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


Wow, are you serious :o So anyone who votes other than the way you want to "doesn't understand politics and " . How condescending :evil:

So people who vote for other parties don't do so based on historical recollections or old ties to parties ? If you think that you really are nothing short of deluded.

Given the other options available and how they are doing elsewhere your horrendous, insulting, generalisation doesn't really stand up to scrutiny does it ?



I didn't say that did I, perhaps you need people to put two statements in separate sentences?

Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics, whoever they vote for.

A majority of people will consistently vote Labour because of their hatred of Margaret Thatcher and the miners strike, rather than considering the state of the welsh NHS and that it gets overwhelmed with an average flu year in winter, let alone covid-19.


Absolute rubbish, re-wording it hasn't changed a jot :roll: :o


Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !?

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting :banghead:

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your blue sunglasses !!


Absolute nonsense :laughing6:

So anyone voting for Labour is based on a historical loyalty or even hatred of hatred of Margaret Thatcher -

Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

You cannot dismiss a huge proportion of the electorate just because they don't agree with you. It's insulting and simply doesn't stand up to reasoned argument unless it goes to all sides of the political voting - Didn't say that read it again :roll: :laughing6:

Taking your approach everyone voting for the Tories is because of the 4 day week under the Labour government in the seventies !? I don't think so, no one has ever said that to me, but plenty have gone into rage about Thatcher, and I understand why!

Unless you can see that there's no real point in this discussion because your won't take off your red sunglasses !!

Are you happy that we can't go to football, or to the bar in a pub because of party politics and because our NHS is so fragile it can't cope with a 10% increase in capacity?

In England they can by the way and their NHS is coping well, and they haven't been locked down so tight that they have to say within five miles of there house for months on end!


No I'm not happy about any of that but I certainly won't dismiss the democratically elected government as one that has been elected by people who haven't got a clue what they voted for which is exactly what you're doing.

By the way, if you really think the Tories are covering themselves in glory in England at the moment then crack on :laughing5:

That's the problem I've got with your dismissive, condescending attitude.


How about yours attitude, you go into one because some disagreed with your opinion! I was just stating it as I see it from working and speaking to people in England and Wales for the last 40 years. A lot of people in Wales didn't have a basic understanding of devolution and didn't realise the power they were unleashing on incompetent politicians, Boris is a clown but their economy, road infrastructure and NHS are in a far healthier position than ours in Wales!

I'm not bothered about party's and gatherings or what happened forty years ago, I'm concerned about state of the welsh economy and a leader restricting peoples lives while failing to try and prove a point!


I have absolutely no problem with you disagreeing with my opinion but I will not accept that the majority of the Welsh electorate "doesn't understand politics" and that is the reason why we have the Welsh Government that we have.

It's insulting and inaccurate, simple.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby welshrarebit » Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:00 pm

Irrespective of whether the electorate knew or didn’t know what was happening. A bigger problem is the disconnect and disinterest.
Anecdotal I know. But I rarely hear people supportive of welsh labour. Yet they keep winning possibly because they are able to mobilise their support better.

I’m not interested in a Boris is worse argument. It’s irrelevant because he isn’t controlling our ability to … for example … watch Cardiff play at home. He isn’t in control of the nhs. Boris is a lot of things. But the fall guy for drakeford he is not.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby rumpo kid » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:17 pm

Democratically elected my hat.. maybe if they introduced compulsory voting. This Labour shower of shit, like the WAG have the mandate of a minority. And that’s the way they like it. Unfortunately the lazy majority afford these bunglers the pretence that they govern. The tories are also pathetic in Wales.

Wales is f****d.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby CF11 Rondo » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:18 pm

rumpo kid wrote:Democratically elected my hat.. maybe if they introduced compulsory voting. This Labour shower of shit, like the WAG have the mandate of a minority. And that’s the way they like it. Unfortunately the lazy majority afford these bunglers the pretence that they govern. The tories are also pathetic in Wales.

Wales is f****d.


So the party that got the most votes being in charge isn’t democracy in your eyes?
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby rumpo kid » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:08 pm

They represent a minority only, nothing to do with eyes. As I said, the party with the biggest minority wins. Labour don’t even have to try to win here... why they’re so incompetent.

Make voting compulsory, just like the electoral register. These politicians would have to be better if it mattered. As it stands, ours are shit.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby BigBearBlue1974 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:48 pm

Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:55 pm

BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

WAG. Health and Education both devolved both tanking.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby powysblue » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:35 pm

You do not have to be a genius fellas, you just have to look at the 2021, 2019 and 2017 political geographical seat map to take an informed guess.

Just look at how many RED small constituency seats are in the traditional industrial hartlands of Wales (basically South and North East Wales). The vast majority of land mass in Wales without predominantly industrial areas, will always loose out due to much smaller population (ie- voters).
welsh assembly election map 2021.jpg
welsh assembly election map 2021.jpg (38.09 KiB) Viewed 418 times


So what does this point towards? That the past or present industrialised areas of wales vote RED because they either think that Labour is the workers party (which as someone pointed out, they do not any more if they ever did?) or because their parents and grandparents did or a throw back from hatred of Thatcher or both.

Either way, until the RED voters in the South and North East wake up to continually failing Labour Governance, the vast majority of Wales suffers from Continued socialist stagnation and some idiotic policy's.

WAG, "Can of Worms" comes to mind.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Tue Jan 11, 2022 10:38 pm

Jock wrote:
BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

WAG. Health and Education both devolved both tanking.


DWP, Justice System and Borders/Immigration NOT devolved but also “tanking” !!!!!!!
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby rumpo kid » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:26 pm

BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.


And this explains why Wales is a failing state.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby CF11 Rondo » Tue Jan 11, 2022 11:42 pm

powysblue wrote:You do not have to be a genius fellas, you just have to look at the 2021, 2019 and 2017 political geographical seat map to take an informed guess.

Just look at how many RED small constituency seats are in the traditional industrial hartlands of Wales (basically South and North East Wales). The vast majority of land mass in Wales without predominantly industrial areas, will always loose out due to much smaller population (ie- voters).
welsh assembly election map 2021.jpg


So what does this point towards? That the past or present industrialised areas of wales vote RED because they either think that Labour is the workers party (which as someone pointed out, they do not any more if they ever did?) or because their parents and grandparents did or a throw back from hatred of Thatcher or both.

Either way, until the RED voters in the South and North East wake up to continually failing Labour Governance, the vast majority of Wales suffers from Continued socialist stagnation and some idiotic policy's.

WAG, "Can of Worms" comes to mind.


Empty land doesn’t vote, people do. Shockingly the winning party wins seats in the area with the most people :?
What’s the alternatives? The only two I can see are getting rid of the Senedd or voting Conservatives in the Senedd elections. Both scenarios means a Tory government.
The Conservatives have been in power for 12 years. In those 12 years what have they done for England and the UK? England isn’t a prospering nation under the Conservatives, it’s not a country other first world nations are envious of or aspire to.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby BlueGog » Wed Jan 12, 2022 7:54 am

rumpo kid wrote:It should also state that if the Senedd remains, England stops funding Wales. Seems fair enough. Yes Cymru can draw up the new budget.


Idiot! Don't you pay your taxes? England does not fund Wales we get a % of what we pay in taxes back, yes only a percentage. While our taxes also pay for things like HS2, London Crossrail, renvovating Westminster and Buckingham Palace, Trident, etc etc. Wake up and smell the coffee.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby BlueGog » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:08 am

Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby jimmy_rat » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:18 am

BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:30 am

piledriver64 wrote:
Jock wrote:
BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

WAG. Health and Education both devolved both tanking.


DWP, Justice System and Borders/Immigration NOT devolved but also “tanking” !!!!!!!

British politic in microcosm right there, we’re all reduced to voting for the least shite option, depressing.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:44 am

jimmy_rat wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.


Fair play to BlueGog if you actually read what he says he obviusly isn't a Labour supporter and you should be able to recognise that. He speaks a lot of sense but it doesn't tie in with what Labour want at the moment.

It's a matter for him as to what party he supports but if you think what he says represents what Labour want in Wales then you really need to read the manifestos other than the discredited Tory propaganda that you clearly take as gospel.

I'm guessing BlueGog is Plaid Cymru but it doesn't really matter. The point he makes on the funding of massive English projects like HS2 from the same overall pot of taxes that includes us, Scotland and NI is just one of the many outdated practises that add to the argument that the Barnett formula has to be seriously reviewed, whatever your party allegiances. It was introduced in 1978 and is massively out of date it needs to be made more relevant.
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:46 am

Jock wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
Jock wrote:
BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.

WAG. Health and Education both devolved both tanking.


DWP, Justice System and Borders/Immigration NOT devolved but also “tanking” !!!!!!!

British politic in microcosm right there, we’re all reduced to voting for the least shite option, depressing.


Absolutely agree, the difference is that the UK government holds all the purse strings whereas Wales is dependant on what the 1978 Barnett formula gives us !
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Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby BlueGog » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:47 am

piledriver64 wrote:
jimmy_rat wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.


Fair play to BlueGog if you actually read what he says he obviusly isn't a Labour supporter and you should be able to recognise that. He speaks a lot of sense but it doesn't tie in with what Labour want at the moment.

It's a matter for him as to what party he supports but if you think what he says represents what Labour want in Wales then you really need to read the manifestos other than the discredited Tory propaganda that you clearly take as gospel.

I'm guessing BlueGog is Plaid Cymru but it doesn't really matter. The point he makes on the funding of massive English projects like HS2 from the same overall pot of taxes that includes us, Scotland and NI is just one of the many outdated practises that add to the argument that the Barnett formula has to be seriously reviewed, whatever your party allegiances. It was introduced in 1978 and is massively out of date it needs to be made more relevant.


Try reading it again, this time with you eyes open or take off those blue glasses
BlueGog
 
Posts: 733
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:09 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby piledriver64 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:59 am

BlueGog wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
jimmy_rat wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.


Fair play to BlueGog if you actually read what he says he obviusly isn't a Labour supporter and you should be able to recognise that. He speaks a lot of sense but it doesn't tie in with what Labour want at the moment.

It's a matter for him as to what party he supports but if you think what he says represents what Labour want in Wales then you really need to read the manifestos other than the discredited Tory propaganda that you clearly take as gospel.

I'm guessing BlueGog is Plaid Cymru but it doesn't really matter. The point he makes on the funding of massive English projects like HS2 from the same overall pot of taxes that includes us, Scotland and NI is just one of the many outdated practises that add to the argument that the Barnett formula has to be seriously reviewed, whatever your party allegiances. It was introduced in 1978 and is massively out of date it needs to be made more relevant.


Try reading it again, this time with you eyes open or take off those blue glasses


I was agreeing with you !! It doesn't really matter what your political allegiances are !!
piledriver64
 
Posts: 3425
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby BlueGog » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:09 am

piledriver64 wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
piledriver64 wrote:
jimmy_rat wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.


Fair play to BlueGog if you actually read what he says he obviusly isn't a Labour supporter and you should be able to recognise that. He speaks a lot of sense but it doesn't tie in with what Labour want at the moment.

It's a matter for him as to what party he supports but if you think what he says represents what Labour want in Wales then you really need to read the manifestos other than the discredited Tory propaganda that you clearly take as gospel.

I'm guessing BlueGog is Plaid Cymru but it doesn't really matter. The point he makes on the funding of massive English projects like HS2 from the same overall pot of taxes that includes us, Scotland and NI is just one of the many outdated practises that add to the argument that the Barnett formula has to be seriously reviewed, whatever your party allegiances. It was introduced in 1978 and is massively out of date it needs to be made more relevant.


Try reading it again, this time with you eyes open or take off those blue glasses


I was agreeing with you !! It doesn't really matter what your political allegiances are !!


I know, my mistake, answered the wrong post
BlueGog
 
Posts: 733
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:09 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby BlueGog » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:11 am

jimmy_rat wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.


Try reading it again. This time with your eyes open and you blue glasses off!
BlueGog
 
Posts: 733
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:09 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:42 am

piledriver64 wrote:
jimmy_rat wrote:
BlueGog wrote:
Bluebina wrote:Unfortunately at least half the Welsh population don't understand politics and most vote for labour because of the miners strike.


I think you can add most of this forum to that! Wales voted Drakeford back with a bigger majority simply because they thought that he had done a better job during the pandemic than the Tories. I think that is still the case even though many on here think selfishly that football is more important than saving lives. Johnson would have done exactly the same as Wales, Scotland and the north of Ireland this time but he knew he couldn't get his party to back him. Similar eh? Putting his party before lives. I won't start with the parties during lockdown. Who do you think the majority of Wales would trust now should an election be called today? Johnson, a liar and a chancer who simply cannot be trusted or Drakeford who whatever else he is comes over as an honest guy.
By the way I'm no Labour supporter.


That is the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

No labour supporter... I think you're Mark Drakeford.


Fair play to BlueGog if you actually read what he says he obviusly isn't a Labour supporter and you should be able to recognise that. He speaks a lot of sense but it doesn't tie in with what Labour want at the moment.

It's a matter for him as to what party he supports but if you think what he says represents what Labour want in Wales then you really need to read the manifestos other than the discredited Tory propaganda that you clearly take as gospel.

I'm guessing BlueGog is Plaid Cymru but it doesn't really matter. The point he makes on the funding of massive English projects like HS2 from the same overall pot of taxes that includes us, Scotland and NI is just one of the many outdated practises that add to the argument that the Barnett formula has to be seriously reviewed, whatever your party allegiances. It was introduced in 1978 and is massively out of date it needs to be made more relevant.

Don’t know about Wales but the Barnett formula is adjusted, pro rata, to compensate Scotland for money spent on Crossrail or HS2
Jock
 
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Lengee » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:54 am

rumpo kid wrote:
BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.


And this explains why Wales is a failing state.


I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it :lol: :lol: :shock:
Onwards and downwards (!) :oops: to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).
:bluebird: :bluebird:
Lengee
 
Posts: 1393
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:02 pm

Re: petition for referendum welsh devolution

Postby Jock » Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:13 am

Lengee wrote:
rumpo kid wrote:
BigBearBlue1974 wrote:Nonsense. No more John Redwoods thankyou. All administrations get things wrong now and again.


And this explains why Wales is a failing state.


I shouldn’t have opened this thread - from an opening poster who can’t even get close to spelling “senedd”…. Yet wants a referendum on it :lol: :lol: :shock:
Onwards and downwards (!) :oops: to a post that refers to our country of Wales as a “failing state”. No doubt half the posters calling for this are people who have moved here from England (or Scotland). Huge numbers have come into Wales in recent years. e.g.there is a great effort by ‘blow-ins’ in Machynlleth - who have come to live in a lovely part of the country. Now they have a petition so that Welsh should not be compulsory in schooling. I guess in their world coming into an area and trying to trample over its history and culture is fine. Forget about all the local families who speak Welsh and have lived their lives in the area for 100s of years. I agree that black rights, gay rights etc should be respected. BUT what about the rights of Welsh people e.g.living in areas of Wales that are being overun by incoming people many of whom (by no means all) show no respect for the existing culture and residents.
Very little if any cogent arguement for getting rid of the senedd. However the huge numbers of incoming residents in Wales has and will change the political map. We have a country to be proud of. Yet we have to watch it dying through sheer numbers of people arriving and believing that it as part of England.
Our approach to Covid has generally been far better than that of Westminster. Those advocating abolishing the senedd because they see Wales as an add-on to England …well I have given up on them. They are like Boris - beyond shame.
I support my club (Cardiff) and my country (Wales).
:bluebird: :bluebird:

I’ve lived the majority of my life in Wales, paid income tax, VAT, NI, corporation tax, rates etc but according to you I shouldn’t have a say in Welsh affairs. My view that spunking a fortune pushing an ancient language is wrong, doesn’t benefit the country and should be spent elsewhere. I have no problem with people learning or speaking Welsh I just resent paying for it.
Jock
 
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:37 pm

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