Cardiff are the worst supported team in the UK

Now before you see red im just here for a friendly discussion and light hearted banter . Before the usual "why are you on here, get on your own forum etc" i know many many cardiff fans and some that i know, i like more than any swansea fan so please be kind (if this type of discussion is not wanted ill happily leave) Just want to bring this up to see number 1, if im right or wrong (happy to be proved otherwise, i do have swansea tinted glasses on) and number 2, if i am right, to see if there's anything that can be done about it for both clubs.

My premise - "Cardiff is one of the most poorly supported clubs per population density in the whole of the Uk"

Cardiff city -
Total population of south east wales including cardiff, newport, bridgend, barry all valleys is just over 1.5million. 400 thousand in cardiff alone. These areas are staunch cardiff supporting areas. This does not include areas such as llanelli, glyncorrwg, neath, cymmer, Brecon and port talbot, which are very odd places in which they are very close to swansea but have a very high amount of cardiff supporters (60 - 40) in port talbots case. In terms of rugby, you have cardiff blues and newport gwent dragons which are not very well supported.

Swansea -
Total population of south west wales is roughly 750 thousand people including swanseas population of just over 230 thousand. These two areas have llanelli scarletts and ospreys which have relatively larger fan bases.

Stadium sizes and attendance -
Cardiff have filled their stadium twice since being opened however these were against man u and liverpool. At just over 33000. Swansea have filled their stadium over 60 times at just over 20000.

Im not for once saying that we would get same as you if in the same size stadium. We would probably get 25000 max for huge games! however i have based this off demand and ticket sales. It could be more/less probably less.

On average for the last 4 seasons you have had 3/4000 more people per game. But considering population size, we are both poorly supported with you considerably more. To encapsulate this i have divided the population and divided by average attendance over last 4 seasons roughly

Cardiff - 1600000/21000 = 76. So 1 in every 76 people watch cardiff

Swansea - 750000/16000 = 46. So 1 in every 46 people watch swansea.

I know there are alot of variables but even if my stats had a 10% margin of error. My premise is still proven. Now i could do this for everyclub in the uk but i dont think i will be far off.

Why is this the case or am i way off? Just light banter/interest/discussion before me and my family have death threats.

I’d agree that for a capital city our support is poor. Too many middle aged men supporting Liverpool, Leeds and Man U. Even saw a man in his 60s with a broad Cardiff accent yesterday with a Man City shirt on.

The only way that we’ll get more fans is with more success, but also making the match day experience a better one.

I’d agree that for a capital city our support is poor. Too many middle aged men supporting Liverpool, Leeds and Man U. Even saw a man in his 60s with a broad Cardiff accent yesterday with a Man City shirt on.

The only way that we’ll get more fans is with more success, but also making the match day experience a better one.

Simon,

Totally agree to many supporting Man United, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal, Leeds etc etc

Instead of their home football teams Cardiff and I include Swansea in this.

Yet the same people say they hate England

Port Talbot is basically Swansea light so why you give it a greater number supporting Cardiff City is beyond me. Was it by any chance to prove that you were right?

I could finagle numbers to make it look like Manure were the worst supported team in the U.K. if I really wanted to mess around with numbers but I don't so I won't.

Our support isn't great for the number of people who live in Cardiff but come on, you're on a wind up here & I could get the opposite result if I just said "well Swansea are the worst supported team in the U.K. because the place is a shit hole & therefore people have nothing else to do except watch the game while people in & around Cardiff have lots of other things to do besides watch football so we'll just use 10% of the population for our comparison".

See I can make up bs numbers to prove Swansea are the worst supported team in the U.K.

Whilst I agree with the general premise you cant include the Newport area in the stats, they have their own team

I watched the game yesterday in the pub and there were almost as many people watching Liverpool in the other bar as were watching the last half hour end of the Swansea game in our bar. And this was the South Wales derby not just any Cardiff game.

I’d agree that for a capital city our support is poor. Too many middle aged men supporting Liverpool, Leeds and Man U. Even saw a man in his 60s with a broad Cardiff accent yesterday with a Man City shirt on.

The only way that we’ll get more fans is with more success, but also making the match day experience a better one.

We don't have fanatical fans like Newcastle, Sunderland, Liverpool etc and never will have. It's part of their DNA and following them is a way of life. Even teams like Norwich and Derby have greater pulling power than us.

The most we can hope for is a period of sustained success that will help bolster the numbers for a few years until the novelty wears off and the crowds start to drift away again.

It's just a fact of life and ceased to be of concern to me many years ago.

I hate to say it but I agree that out support isn't where it should be.

Simply put, too many armchair fans in South Wales who love nothing more than showing off their love for either Utd, Man City, Liverpool or Arsenal- when they have never even been to any of their games.

Its quite sad really.

Got to agree with some of the OP’s comments.

Too many plastics in south Wales.

In an odd way, I’d prefer to see someone in a Gypo shirt than someone wearing a glory hunter shirt.

Because you seem a half decent Jack I will answer you. The biggest problem we have is the lack of sustained success to establish a large fan base. This coupled with so many Premier League glory supporters in South Wales following the likes of Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea etc means both Cardiff and Swansea struggle for support.

Quite honestly although I have an healthy dislike for the Jack's I have more respect for someone who chooses to support the Jack's over any of the ars*holes who support the Premiership sides I mentioned.

However I honestly think Cardiff has far more potential than Swansea and believe if Cardiff got sustained success and by that I mean getting to and staying in the Premiership for a long period our supporter base would increase considerably, kids would have the opportunity to watch a Premiership side and once hooked would stay loyal.

Personally I am not bothered by crowd numbers as long as my Son and I are there and my Grandsons will be there when they are older never mind what Division we are in that is what supporting your Club is all about and I am sure you feel the same about the Jack's

Support in Wales is definitely fickle, that goes for all the Welsh clubs. Makes me laugh with Wrexham now, all their current “fans” pretending they’ve been supporting them loyally for the last 15 years.

The more sensible posts about plastics are sadly true - grown men trying to prove an allegiance to teams hundreds of miles away simply because they were the best team when they were growing up. Not football supporters at all in my eyes.

Ridiculous part of the OP was saying about how swansea town have filled their stadium more often - of course they have when it’s a lot smaller, and it’s a lot smaller for a reason. Close a stand or two and then see how often you fill it then - your 60 times will soon grow.

I would say that the 60+ times you claim the jacks have filled your stadium would mostly if not all be in premier league years.

I would say that the 60+ times you claim the jacks have filled your stadium would mostly if not all be in premier league years.

Hi
Tbh, the 60 times was a complete guess at the time of writing, having looked just now, we sold out way over 100 times during the premier league not including big games in the championship/league one - against you, promotion games etc.

Look back to our time in the premier league, its very difficult to gauge how high our support could have gone and what percentage of people were actually invested in the swans rather than just people coming to watch the other team. Maybe 25000 on a big game.

Your greatest attendance was a sell out against liverpool. However i would judge your "invested" support maybe when you played us which was 27/28000 ish.

You have way more potential due to geography and with transport for wales (transport for cardiff known by most swansea fans ) increasing trains to every 4 mins from valleys to stadium, i expect if you got to the premier league, then your support would grow

Support in Wales is definitely fickle, that goes for all the Welsh clubs. Makes me laugh with Wrexham now, all their current “fans” pretending they’ve been supporting them loyally for the last 15 years.

The more sensible posts about plastics are sadly true - grown men trying to prove an allegiance to teams hundreds of miles away simply because they were the best team when they were growing up. Not football supporters at all in my eyes.

Ridiculous part of the OP was saying about how swansea town have filled their stadium more often - of course they have when it’s a lot smaller, and it’s a lot smaller for a reason. Close a stand or two and then see how often you fill it then - your 60 times will soon grow.

Hi
Thanks for the responce,

I only highlighted the fact that we have sold our ground over 60 times was to point out that nobody knows how high it could have got to. It is far easier to gauge your support level because you only sold out twice in two prem seasons.

Im not saying we would have matched your support but with a bigger stadium we could have got to 25000 maybe.

I think the opening post is very biased.

Jack's in Port Tapbot, Bridgend, valleys and even Barry.

7 years in premier gauge changed everything and this must ve taken into account.

If Cardiff had 7 years in Premier league, won a cup final and got into Europe. We would be far far bigger potentially.
Also
The opening post fails to mention the loss of 4000 to 5000 fans due to rebrand, who have never come back really.
Would probably need more seats......

I would say that the 60+ times you claim the jacks have filled your stadium would mostly if not all be in premier league years.

Hi
Tbh, the 60 times was a complete guess at the time of writing, having looked just now, we sold out way over 100 times during the premier league not including big games in the championship/league one - against you, promotion games etc.

Look back to our time in the premier league, its very difficult to gauge how high our support could have gone and what percentage of people were actually invested in the swans rather than just people coming to watch the other team. Maybe 25000 on a big game.

Your greatest attendance was a sell out against liverpool. However i would judge your "invested" support maybe when you played us which was 27/28000 ish.

You have way more potential due to geography and with transport for wales (transport for cardiff known by most swansea fans ) increasing trains to every 4 mins from valleys to stadium, i expect if you got to the premier league, then your support would grow

Again with the picking numbers to suit your blinkered viewpoint.

Your biggest ever crowd of 32,786 is dwarfed by our biggest ever crowd of 57,893, funnily enough both were against Arsenal.

So far all we've seen is you making up numbers or picking & choosing your numbers to suit your agenda.

I always thought this argument of who is the bigger club was sour grapes from down west and it appears I was 100% correct.

I await your next set of guessed or made up numbers as I'm sure you'll say you were only looking at a particular period of time . Sometimes you just need to stop digging the hole.

I would say that the 60+ times you claim the jacks have filled your stadium would mostly if not all be in premier league years.

Hi
Tbh, the 60 times was a complete guess at the time of writing, having looked just now, we sold out way over 100 times during the premier league not including big games in the championship/league one - against you, promotion games etc.

Look back to our time in the premier league, its very difficult to gauge how high our support could have gone and what percentage of people were actually invested in the swans rather than just people coming to watch the other team. Maybe 25000 on a big game.

Your greatest attendance was a sell out against liverpool. However i would judge your "invested" support maybe when you played us which was 27/28000 ish.

You have way more potential due to geography and with transport for wales (transport for cardiff known by most swansea fans ) increasing trains to every 4 mins from valleys to stadium, i expect if you got to the premier league, then your support would grow

Again with the picking numbers to suit your blinkered viewpoint.

Your biggest ever crowd of 32,786 is dwarfed by our biggest ever crowd of 57,893, funnily enough both were against Arsenal.

So far all we've seen is you making up numbers or picking & choosing your numbers to suit your agenda.

I always thought this argument of who is the bigger club was sour grapes from down west and it appears I was 100% correct.

I await your next set of guessed or made up numbers as I'm sure you'll say you were only looking at a particular period of time . Sometimes you just need to stop digging the hole.

1.You are the bigger club out of us two. No sour grapes from my point of view. In terms of history and success from start to finish you wins hands down.

2.I disagree with you about me skewing the figures. I have taken the population from our catchment areas and divided them by the average attendance from the last 4 years and got a figure thats all.

3.There are variables in the figures such as (newport has a football team) on the flip side, cardiff does draw huge support from outside its catchment area.

4. Looking at the figures, bristol city are a much better supported team in terms of attendance per population than cardiff.

5.just trying to work out possible reasons for why thats all?

People Google all football clubs then average support then seasons in top division you will roughly find THE BIGGEST SUPPORTED CLUBS ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE SPENT THE MOST SEASONS IN THE TOP DIVISION.a club like ours that has only appeared in the top division for17 seasons has no chance of building a bigger fanbase . Cardiff and it's environs is growing bigger all the time the football club isn't .

Now before you see red im just here for a friendly discussion and light hearted banter . Before the usual "why are you on here, get on your own forum etc" i know many many cardiff fans and some that i know, i like more than any swansea fan so please be kind (if this type of discussion is not wanted ill happily leave) Just want to bring this up to see number 1, if im right or wrong (happy to be proved otherwise, i do have swansea tinted glasses on) and number 2, if i am right, to see if there's anything that can be done about it for both clubs.

My premise - "Cardiff is one of the most poorly supported clubs per population density in the whole of the Uk"

Cardiff city -
Total population of south east wales including cardiff, newport, bridgend, barry all valleys is just over 1.5million. 400 thousand in cardiff alone. These areas are staunch cardiff supporting areas. This does not include areas such as llanelli, glyncorrwg, neath, cymmer, Brecon and port talbot, which are very odd places in which they are very close to swansea but have a very high amount of cardiff supporters (60 - 40) in port talbots case. In terms of rugby, you have cardiff blues and newport gwent dragons which are not very well supported.

Swansea -
Total population of south west wales is roughly 750 thousand people including swanseas population of just over 230 thousand. These two areas have llanelli scarletts and ospreys which have relatively larger fan bases.

Stadium sizes and attendance -
Cardiff have filled their stadium twice since being opened however these were against man u and liverpool. At just over 33000. Swansea have filled their stadium over 60 times at just over 20000.

Im not for once saying that we would get same as you if in the same size stadium. We would probably get 25000 max for huge games! however i have based this off demand and ticket sales. It could be more/less probably less.

On average for the last 4 seasons you have had 3/4000 more people per game. But considering population size, we are both poorly supported with you considerably more. To encapsulate this i have divided the population and divided by average attendance over last 4 seasons roughly

Cardiff - 1600000/21000 = 76. So 1 in every 76 people watch cardiff

Swansea - 750000/16000 = 46. So 1 in every 46 people watch swansea.

I know there are alot of variables but even if my stats had a 10% margin of error. My premise is still proven. Now i could do this for everyclub in the uk but i dont think i will be far off.

Why is this the case or am i way off? Just light banter/interest/discussion before me and my family have death threats.

Deluded JB. Scum town 7 years in premier won a trophy but never expanded their little tin pot ground because there wasn't any need to. Non entity of a club like Newport.

Quite frankly regardless of club, no Welsh team will ever be a big club. None of the clubs would really warrant a massive following from outside of Wales. With the jacks especially the majority of their fan base that I know also support the like of a Liverpool or United, but ‘follow’ the swans because they are closer to home. I’ve personally never understood how you could ever follow more than one club, but each to their own.

I and others have written plenty about this and Cardiff have a uniquely large catchment area of 1.5M and are a capital city with decent infrastructure and amenities.

Sustained PL football would be the only thing to unlock this and it is entirely possible. Wales "Red Wall" success proves this too, a packed CCS now every time. And I think we could add another decent chunk to that 33K but only after a period of sustained PL success. The most important thing is the unique population potential and as a capital city etc

The OPs headline is really saying Cardiff could be one of the best supported clubs based on the above.

We really should be where Brighton and a few notable others are now, if not higher, if properly run.

I and others have written plenty about this and Cardiff have a uniquely large catchment area of 1.5M and are a capital city with decent infrastructure and amenities.

Sustained PL football would be the only thing to unlock this and it is entirely possible. Wales "Red Wall" success proves this too, a packed CCS now every time. And I think we could add another decent chunk to that 33K but only after a period of sustained PL success. The most important thing is the unique population potential and as a capital city etc

The OPs headline is really saying Cardiff could be one of the best supported clubs based on the above.

We really should be where Brighton and a few notable others are now, if not higher, if properly run.

I think you are spot on.

I'd also be interested in the reverse picture.

Swansea spent 7 seasons of sustainable PL football of which you would have thought you would have seen an exponential expansion of supporters and would have at least maintained a sell out status for every game post PL.

I know the catchment area is roughly half but why hasn't that happened?

The main thing really is PL revenue targets for clubs, as the gate revenues are much smaller than the main revenue stream so the fan number stat will always be secondary really.

Thinking about it, it's a redundant topic in the real world of elite football finance but it's intriguing and and important part of growth and getting to sustained PL success.

Now before you see red im just here for a friendly discussion and light hearted banter . Before the usual "why are you on here, get on your own forum etc" i know many many cardiff fans and some that i know, i like more than any swansea fan so please be kind (if this type of discussion is not wanted ill happily leave) Just want to bring this up to see number 1, if im right or wrong (happy to be proved otherwise, i do have swansea tinted glasses on) and number 2, if i am right, to see if there's anything that can be done about it for both clubs.

My premise - "Cardiff is one of the most poorly supported clubs per population density in the whole of the Uk"

Cardiff city -
Total population of south east wales including cardiff, newport, bridgend, barry all valleys is just over 1.5million. 400 thousand in cardiff alone. These areas are staunch cardiff supporting areas. This does not include areas such as llanelli, glyncorrwg, neath, cymmer, Brecon and port talbot, which are very odd places in which they are very close to swansea but have a very high amount of cardiff supporters (60 - 40) in port talbots case. In terms of rugby, you have cardiff blues and newport gwent dragons which are not very well supported.

Swansea -
Total population of south west wales is roughly 750 thousand people including swanseas population of just over 230 thousand. These two areas have llanelli scarletts and ospreys which have relatively larger fan bases.

Stadium sizes and attendance -
Cardiff have filled their stadium twice since being opened however these were against man u and liverpool. At just over 33000. Swansea have filled their stadium over 60 times at just over 20000.

Im not for once saying that we would get same as you if in the same size stadium. We would probably get 25000 max for huge games! however i have based this off demand and ticket sales. It could be more/less probably less.

On average for the last 4 seasons you have had 3/4000 more people per game. But considering population size, we are both poorly supported with you considerably more. To encapsulate this i have divided the population and divided by average attendance over last 4 seasons roughly

Cardiff - 1600000/21000 = 76. So 1 in every 76 people watch cardiff

Swansea - 750000/16000 = 46. So 1 in every 46 people watch swansea.

I know there are alot of variables but even if my stats had a 10% margin of error. My premise is still proven. Now i could do this for everyclub in the uk but i dont think i will be far off.

Why is this the case or am i way off? Just light banter/interest/discussion before me and my family have death threats.

Deluded JB. Scum town 7 years in premier won a trophy but never expanded their little tin pot ground because there wasn't any need to. Non entity of a club like Newport.

Please explain how im deluded. As best as i can, i have spoken facts not feelings.

I'd also be interested in the reverse picture.

Swansea spent 7 seasons of sustainable PL football of which you would have thought you would have seen an exponential expansion of supporters and would have at least maintained a sell out status for every game post PL.

I know the catchment area is roughly half but why hasn't that happened?

The main thing really is PL revenue targets for clubs, as the gate revenues are much smaller than the main revenue stream so the fan number stat will always be secondary really.

Thinking about it, it's a redundant topic in the real world of elite football finance but it's intriguing and and important part of growth and getting to sustained PL success.

Sustaining prem football for a club swanseas size is near impossible and once a decline starts relegation becomes inevitable. It becomes very monotonous to keep spending your money going to liverpool,man city etc year on year and getting smashed.

I dont mean to sound sarci and im not trying to wind you up, but you havent been through it to know. One or two seasons in the prem is exciting but 5,6,7is another story.

Back to my point, if you combine this, with a fickle fan base, change of owners, and a fan base that supports swansea as their 2nd team. Then support does dwindle.

I'd also be interested in the reverse picture.

Swansea spent 7 seasons of sustainable PL football of which you would have thought you would have seen an exponential expansion of supporters and would have at least maintained a sell out status for every game post PL.

I know the catchment area is roughly half but why hasn't that happened?

The main thing really is PL revenue targets for clubs, as the gate revenues are much smaller than the main revenue stream so the fan number stat will always be secondary really.

Thinking about it, it's a redundant topic in the real world of elite football finance but it's intriguing and and important part of growth and getting to sustained PL success.

Sustaining prem football for a club swanseas size is near impossible and once a decline starts relegation becomes inevitable. It becomes very monotonous to keep spending your money going to liverpool,man city etc year on year and getting smashed.

I dont mean to sound sarci and im not trying to wind you up, but you havent been through it to know. One or two seasons in the prem is exciting but 5,6,7is another story.

Back to my point, if you combine this, with a fickle fan base, change of owners, and a fan base that supports swansea as their 2nd team. Then support does dwindle.

Agree with that and appreciate your explanation.

I remember HJ saying something like after 4 seasons, costs go up to in terms of player retention and recruitment so it's not an easy gig at all and you reach a pivot point.

But it it possible when you look at Brighton etc and going back to the original OP, Cardiff, if has been run correctly, should be there and to my mind after 14 years, higher still.

We had a fair share of '2nd teamers' in our brief PL outings that fell away plus those who only want the good times and we also lost a fair few 'hardcore' fans due to the rebrand debacle.

But again, the financial goal is not specifically revenue growth from am increased fan base that could be transitional, it's the core PL revenue stream that owners after after.

The elite want more than that of course but that's another thread and they have the footfall to do it. Ratcliffe is talking about it with Man U so moving into retail uplift and further diversification.

But back to the OP, Cardiff for my reasons stated plus yours should now be in a position of sustainable PL status and one of the best supported clubs in the UK. I appreciate your comments on the pitfalls though, duly noted.

I would say that the 60+ times you claim the jacks have filled your stadium would mostly if not all be in premier league years.

Rugby songs down the Liberty Stadium,
In my opinion, the emergence of Regional Rugby and the decline of club rugby in South Wales, which once boasted a dedicated following, prompted many disillusioned rugby fans in the western region to shift their support to Swansea City and helped to fill their Stadium, The team's elevation to Premiership football status in 2011 may be linked to the ex-rugby new-found supporters' contributing to Rugby songs being sung among their fanbase.

Interesting thread this. It won’t happen in my lifetime but what can we do to turn the tide of South Wales glory hunters?

I have far far more respect for Swansea fans that I do for them.

As Annis mentioned, cheering on Liverpool in the morning and then heading to the pub to sing anti English chants during the Six Nations. The hypocrisy is staggering.

I've read this thread with interest and enjoyed the genuine responses with honest answers.
Thanks curious jack for a decent post. Too many of your lot and I'm sure ours too go on each others' forums to be wind up merchants.
I agree with much of what's been said:
Too many plastics in S Wales. Lots elsewhere of course but we seem to have the worst of it. I can't stand the plastics personally and would much rather support my local team (even if it is Swansea )
Cardiff doesn't have the large passionate football loving fanbase like Sunderland, Norwich, etc but our loyal supporters are amongst the best.
The potential is there for Cardiff to be a bigger club, as has been said ... with sustained Premier League status, decent owners who give a sh#t, etc.

one of the most knowledgeable football fans I know is a jack, and I consider him a good friend, so i'll ask a genuine question.

what is your club doing to get fans in ? how much are your tickets etc ?

I’d agree that for a capital city our support is poor. Too many middle aged men supporting Liverpool, Leeds and Man U. Even saw a man in his 60s with a broad Cardiff accent yesterday with a Man City shirt on.

The only way that we’ll get more fans is with more success, but also making the match day experience a better one.

We don't have fanatical fans like Newcastle, Sunderland, Liverpool etc and never will have. It's part of their DNA and following them is a way of life. Even teams like Norwich and Derby have greater pulling power than us.

The most we can hope for is a period of sustained success that will help bolster the numbers for a few years until the novelty wears off and the crowds start to drift away again.

It's just a fact of life and ceased to be of concern to me many years ago.

I disagree , we can become a top supported. It would take time and good ownership. I'm pretty sure that Liverpool weren't the best/biggest club in the 50s