The definition of madness

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

We lost our first two and drew the last one.

We lost at Swansea last season but didn’t this season.

So we did get a different result

Missing the point Ned

Playing the same way same formation not to lose
Same result having to chase a gane we are losing
After playi g shite for first half ring any bells

Missing the point Ned

Playing the same way same formation not to lose
Same result having to chase a gane we are losing
After playi g shite for first half ring any bells

We have been more attacking this season so we aren't playing the same way.

And as Ned said, we didn't lose to Swansea, so the result was different too.

come on roath y i know your a bulut fan, but the same dross is being served up, set out to defend and chasing a goal down all three games mean setting up the same and falling behind every game, thats the ame to me

The definition of madness is not being able to spell madness.

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Why not tell him yourself, after all, he can only benefit from your greater wisdom and experience.

Brian don't be pedantic it's just big banana fingers

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

The op will say same thing if we went 13 games unbeaten or win next four games ..... so no matter how we play it will be the same we ate playing more attacking football as yesterday showed but unfortunately some can't or dont want to see it

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

If you can't see that he's trying to play a more attacking game of football, then it's you that needs to go to Specsavers

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

If you can't see that he's trying to play a more attacking game of football, then it's you that needs to go to Specsavers

If can't see it then perhaps they need to look at the stats its in black and white....

Stats don't win football matches. We're bottom of the table with a -7 GD, early days admittedly.

Not once has Bulut attempted to play any other tactic than his usual go-to. If it isn't obvious, I need more convincing that he's more flexible with formations than he's shown so far.

Agree, we have attacked more perhaps, but where has it got us?

Alan ....more attacking football in the second half when chasing a game we are losing

same as last season...more attacking resulting one goal in three
If you can t see the same pattern I despair

Alan ....more attacking football in the second half when chasing a game we are losing

same as last season...more attacking resulting one goal in three
If you can t see the same pattern I despair

Bunley was not chasing game in fact took it to them until that unfortunate goal was not playing to keep it 0-0 if can't see that I despair! Lack of goals is because don't convert the chances we create and we do create chances...... as for Sunday yes we did sfa most game but swans did fck all before or after their goal... at end day it's not what team does in parts of game its based over 90mins as that's how long game lasts ... the stats over 90mins sunday do not beare out bulut being defensive as he was last season.... i use stats as its black & white not what people's opinion is...... but I do Call buluts tactics frustrating considering the players we have.

I agree with you Alan that his tactics are frustrating and as for Burnley it's no good being the attacking side for 10 mins same as Swansea. The team he picks to start can't cope after goi g a goal behind after urnley got the first we reverted to type same as Swansea game and I do despair with Bulut in charge

Ala..... I respect your opinion but if we refer to statistics;
Last season we conceded 70 goals the most in 30 years bar one in the premiership when we conceded 74.
This season in three games 8 goals conceded take that as an average over the season that's 120... I obviously dont think anywhere bear that amount
But it's the statistics of 1 for 8 against and 1 point that I'm oozing at.
But hey ho opinions aye

At t

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Why not tell him yourself, after all, he can only benefit from your greater wisdom and experience.

I cant scream any louder at him 'change it!' 'go for it!' and all around me shouting the same. Its not wisdom and experience its the blatantly obvious.

I agree with you Alan that his tactics are frustrating and as for Burnley it's no good being the attacking side for 10 mins same as Swansea. The team he picks to start can't cope after goi g a goal behind after urnley got the first we reverted to type same as Swansea game and I do despair with Bulut in charge

Think we all need bit more patience with him until all new players are ready and in team..... but what I am looking for his him putting rambo deeper and moving robbo further upfield like he did Sunday that's when we improved...its something he said he was goin6 yo do but upto Sunday haven't seen it unless he's waiting for everyone to be fit to implement the tactic which should work better as we saw. ..I'm not that confident in him but I do see improvement even if results don't show it at moment

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

If you can't see that he's trying to play a more attacking game of football, then it's you that needs to go to Specsavers

In some of the pre season games, definitely not the cup game, and the league games, there has been some improvement in forward momentum, penetrative passing, purpose and keeping the ball. If you call that an attacking game then thats your opinion. I dont. Because there is still an isolated striker and low or no bodies in the box. A historic issue that remains unfixed. That is not good management, and the reason is his stubborn rigid system, that we are now stuck with. You can play an 'attacking game' as much as you want with that set up, you still get a lonesome striker. Stubborness, predictability and setting up not to lose rather than win doesnt belong here, worse still relying on your creative rescue crew subs is as predictable as his dire gameplan. I dont expect champagne Man City football at this level, but I dont expect stubborness, reluctance to adapt or change or predictability either.

The op will say same thing if we went 13 games unbeaten or win next four games ..... so no matter how we play it will be the same we ate playing more attacking football as yesterday showed but unfortunately some can't or dont want to see it

Dead right Allan

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

If you can't see that he's trying to play a more attacking game of football, then it's you that needs to go to Specsavers

In some of the pre season games, definitely not the cup game, and the league games, there has been some improvement in forward momentum, penetrative passing, purpose and keeping the ball. If you call that an attacking game then thats your opinion. I dont. Because there is still an isolated striker and low or no bodies in the box. A historic issue that remains unfixed. That is not good management, and the reason is his stubborn rigid system, that we are now stuck with. You can play an 'attacking game' as much as you want with that set up, you still get a lonesome striker. Stubborness, predictability and setting up not to lose rather than win doesnt belong here, worse still relying on your creative rescue crew subs is as predictable as his dire gameplan. I dont expect champagne Man City football at this level, but I dont expect stubborness, reluctance to adapt or change or predictability either.

You said we are playing the same.

We aren't. Same formation is not the same.

Man City play a 4 2 3 1 same as City's formation.

Is it the same? No!

Are we playing the same football as last year? No, we are more attacking.

The fact that you and others stick by your "it's the same" because of the formation is bewildering.

If you had said "we are still shit" I'd agree.

But you aren't. You're saying we play the same. Which we don't.

The same.. setting up not to concede with two defensive midfielders
The same one up front
The same chasing games when going behind
The same pedestrian midfield
Agree we have attacked early on but a goal down in 10 minutes in last two games and we revert to same old.
He brings the cavalry on when we are chasing a game

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

If you can't see that he's trying to play a more attacking game of football, then it's you that needs to go to Specsavers

In some of the pre season games, definitely not the cup game, and the league games, there has been some improvement in forward momentum, penetrative passing, purpose and keeping the ball. If you call that an attacking game then thats your opinion. I dont. Because there is still an isolated striker and low or no bodies in the box. A historic issue that remains unfixed. That is not good management, and the reason is his stubborn rigid system, that we are now stuck with. You can play an 'attacking game' as much as you want with that set up, you still get a lonesome striker. Stubborness, predictability and setting up not to lose rather than win doesnt belong here, worse still relying on your creative rescue crew subs is as predictable as his dire gameplan. I dont expect champagne Man City football at this level, but I dont expect stubborness, reluctance to adapt or change or predictability either.

You said we are playing the same.

We aren't. Same formation is not the same.

Man City play a 4 2 3 1 same as City's formation.

Is it the same? No!

Are we playing the same football as last year? No, we are more attacking.

The fact that you and others stick by your "it's the same" because of the formation is bewildering.

If you had said "we are still shit" I'd agree.

But you aren't. You're saying we play the same. Which we don't.

Its the same formation every single game of his tenure, and thats the point of the OP. Yes, you can vary intensity and defensive/attacking mentality within any formation, but the predictabilty of shape remains, and that makes life a little easier for forthcoming opponents to scout us. If the formation produced goals, a winning mentality, excitement and a feeling of pride in defeat then absolutely stick to it, it was dire for the majority of last season. And the stubborn rigidity means we dont adapt to changes in the gameplay. These are the good managers. Bulut just calls the Batphone on 60/0 mins for Colwill, Tanner, Robinson etc.

Man City could play 8-1-1 and still play great football and win matches.

Of course we are playing differently to last season we have different players!! The wingers in particular are less inverted, but the fact remains the striker remains isolated, and not to revert to a different formation to help the striker or get more bodies in the box is poor management. Poor goals tally last season, and 1 league goal this season, manufactured by the rescue crew off the bench yet again. No change from last season there,

If you think we are more attacking , then maybe but the problems caused by his inabilty to play a different formation remain. Would love to see a 4-3-3, 4-1-4-1 or 3-5-2 with this current crop of players. My only glimmer of hope is Buluts mandatory 2 holding midfielders being Robertson and Ralls/Ramsey might actually make the system tick better than Siopis/Wintle did. And reduce the need for Colwill to come deep all the time creating striker isolation. So I am hoping Bulutball was so called because the wrong type of midfielders were giving it a bad name!

Good post Stephen

I understand what you're saying and I'm not trying to be awkward.

I'm simply saying that people are saying "same" as if it is EXACTLY the same football as last season.

Which it isn't.

I don't think you are being awkward its all about opinions pal .....I am just fed up with his same approach I am fed up of us conceding first and always playing catch hey let's agree to disagree

Is doing the same thing and expecting a different result

I will add fuel to this, this manager has never not set up without an isolated striker and 2 CDMs. Even when losing, even against teams there for the taking, even against teams from lower tiers. Does it need someone to have a word in his ear and tell him that you are actually allowed to change formation during game time. No adaptability, or variation, invites predictability, it’s just dire. This is my definition of madness. I can’t think of another City manager this stubborn with tactics. We deserve better

Nail on head. If Bulut has football wisdom and experience, I've yet to see him consistently bring those behaviours into play.

Fact is, the vast majority of his matches in charge have followed a similar pattern - setting up with his stifling 1 man strike force, conceding a goal or two because there's no pace or hold up play up front and then after 65 or 70 minutes, bring on the creative rescue crew!

If the Bulut fans can't see this, a visit to Specsavers might help.

If you can't see that he's trying to play a more attacking game of football, then it's you that needs to go to Specsavers

In some of the pre season games, definitely not the cup game, and the league games, there has been some improvement in forward momentum, penetrative passing, purpose and keeping the ball. If you call that an attacking game then thats your opinion. I dont. Because there is still an isolated striker and low or no bodies in the box. A historic issue that remains unfixed. That is not good management, and the reason is his stubborn rigid system, that we are now stuck with. You can play an 'attacking game' as much as you want with that set up, you still get a lonesome striker. Stubborness, predictability and setting up not to lose rather than win doesnt belong here, worse still relying on your creative rescue crew subs is as predictable as his dire gameplan. I dont expect champagne Man City football at this level, but I dont expect stubborness, reluctance to adapt or change or predictability either.

You said we are playing the same.

We aren't. Same formation is not the same.

Man City play a 4 2 3 1 same as City's formation.

Is it the same? No!

Are we playing the same football as last year? No, we are more attacking.

The fact that you and others stick by your "it's the same" because of the formation is bewildering.

If you had said "we are still shit" I'd agree.

But you aren't. You're saying we play the same. Which we don't.

Its the same formation every single game of his tenure, and thats the point of the OP. Yes, you can vary intensity and defensive/attacking mentality within any formation, but the predictabilty of shape remains, and that makes life a little easier for forthcoming opponents to scout us. If the formation produced goals, a winning mentality, excitement and a feeling of pride in defeat then absolutely stick to it, it was dire for the majority of last season. And the stubborn rigidity means we dont adapt to changes in the gameplay. These are the good managers. Bulut just calls the Batphone on 60/0 mins for Colwill, Tanner, Robinson etc.

Man City could play 8-1-1 and still play great football and win matches.

Of course we are playing differently to last season we have different players!! The wingers in particular are less inverted, but the fact remains the striker remains isolated, and not to revert to a different formation to help the striker or get more bodies in the box is poor management. Poor goals tally last season, and 1 league goal this season, manufactured by the rescue crew off the bench yet again. No change from last season there,

If you think we are more attacking , then maybe but the problems caused by his inabilty to play a different formation remain. Would love to see a 4-3-3, 4-1-4-1 or 3-5-2 with this current crop of players. My only glimmer of hope is Buluts mandatory 2 holding midfielders being Robertson and Ralls/Ramsey might actually make the system tick better than Siopis/Wintle did. And reduce the need for Colwill to come deep all the time creating striker isolation. So I am hoping Bulutball was so called because the wrong type of midfielders were giving it a bad name!

Dont all managers start a
Game with his favourite formation? Bulut no different and would changing formation
work hard to say.... he does change formation during every game generally because we are normally struggling ..... Will agree about lone striker in city's case doesn't work but there again goal Sunday was a team goal of highest order no lone striker in sight!! Let's see what happens Saturday after boost from swans game.