" Langston v VT "

If the debt is not sorted my 31/12/10 I wonder where it will go from there.
Back to court maybe.

If it goes back up to 29m or whatever it is I struggle to see how we can ever pay it off

If it goes back up to 29m or whatever it is I struggle to see how we can ever pay it off

sam back as chairman would settle the debt

Does VT care?
He could put the club in Admin and say if you can find £29 million you can have it.

I DON'T THINK SAM WILL GET A PENNY.

i think vt and co might have found something and will say to sam take us to court if you dare and sam will get hardly anything or bugger all

This is going to be some poker game !!

In my opinion Hammam will just have to wait and wait as he's in no position to put up a good defence for repayment whilst his loans remain unsecured, far too many secured loans by Tan/PMG at the top of the list, a fatal mistake by Hammam when he left the money in the Company as unsecured loans. Threats of Administration will always ensure he withdrawls from debt enforcement. Tan will leave him to hang out and live in hope of repayment one day when the Company is in a viable position to re-pay the loans.

who is this secret rubbish thats called langstone anyway??

Does VT care?
He could put the club in Admin and say if you can find £29 million you can have it.

Spot on. Been saying this for a while.

The assets of the club (and forget the ground -who's going to buy it ?), are maybe £10m, less than the amount overed by secured loans for PMG and VT.

If Sam demands his cash the club will go into admin.

Love to see it sorted, but for all the loan agreements etc.. Sam's not in a great bargaining position.

Does VT care?
He could put the club in Admin and say if you can find £29 million you can have it.

Spot on. Been saying this for a while.

The assets of the club (and forget the ground -who's going to buy it ?), are maybe £10m, less than the amount overed by secured loans for PMG and VT.

If Sam demands his cash the club will go into admin.

Love to see it sorted, but for all the loan agreements etc.. Sam's not in a great bargaining position.

agree Tim

Admin is always an option but a pretty dam painful one and I don't think it will be as easy to come out of it unharmed as some think.

There is another possibilty in that a figure of £7m was recent discussed as a possible settlement figure. What if VT offerred the £5m spare capacity in shares and £2m in cash as a settlement?

If the debt is not sorted my 31/12/10 I wonder where it will go from there.
Back to court maybe.

Sams now in America on Holiday and VT did not meet up with him again, You never know there's 9 days left, But I Believe there will be No Deal Done, NOT GOOD I'm Afraid.

the maysians are ruthless i think they have sam by the balls here

In my humble opinion I think the edbt will revert back to 24 million, this will hang over the club with the 15 million we now owe VT. If the club do get promoted then Vt can deal with Sam and look forward to the riches that could come from the Prem, if it goes tits up he can walk away with us owing him 15 million, but by then he may have sold as much of the assets as he can.

The debt and problem could just keep being passed on and on.

Admin is always an option but a pretty dam painful one and I don't think it will be as easy to come out of it unharmed as some think.

There is another possibilty in that a figure of £7m was recent discussed as a possible settlement figure. What if VT offerred the £5m spare capacity in shares and £2m in cash as a settlement?

Pianful for the club, ppainful for Sam, but not so painful for secured creditprs.

I'd love to see it settled as it will reduce the clubs chances of going through, and i'm sick of having it hanging over us, but I get the feeling VT isnt going to be rushed.

In my humble opinion I think the edbt will revert back to 24 million, this will hang over the club with the 15 million we now owe VT. If the club do get promoted then Vt can deal with Sam and look forward to the riches that could come from the Prem, if it goes tits up he can walk away with us owing him 15 million, but by then he may have sold as much of the assets as he can.

The debt and problem could just keep being passed on and on.

The debt can only go back to £24m by Sam going to court.

I sincerely hope that doesnt happen.

VT will lose the £5-£6m he's put in in shares if we go into admin, but he'll get a good chunk of anyhting else he's owed by selling off the silver, next would be PMG and Sam and the other shareholder would be left with nothing -and the fans... well who gives a shit about us.

IT WILL BE VERY INTERESTING THE OUT COME .

I thought vt had put a large amount of cash into the club if this is true why didnt he just pay sam off or has he seen something that will get us off paying it.

I thought vt had put a large amount of cash into the club if this is true why didnt he just pay sam off or has he seen something that will get us off paying it.

VT is ruthless as many staff have found IMO him or some of the very clever people working for him have dug up something in the paperwork to frighten off any potential legal battle and he is just biding his time,ask riddler after all he got sweet f**k all

IMO

I wouldn't worry about the fact the debt goes up after 31/12.....it will only mean the balance sheet looks at lot more unhealthy.

The real crux of this debt is what SH will be prepared to settle on in full and final payment, regardless of wether it's before or after New Year......

In my humble opinion I think the edbt will revert back to 24 million, this will hang over the club with the 15 million we now owe VT. If the club do get promoted then Vt can deal with Sam and look forward to the riches that could come from the Prem, if it goes tits up he can walk away with us owing him 15 million, but by then he may have sold as much of the assets as he can.

The debt and problem could just keep being passed on and on.

The debt can only go back to £24m by Sam going to court.

I sincerely hope that doesnt happen.

VT will lose the £5-£6m he's put in in shares if we go into admin, but he'll get a good chunk of anyhting else he's owed by selling off the silver, next would be PMG and Sam and the other shareholder would be left with nothing -and the fans... well who gives a shit about us.

IMO if the matter did go back to court Langston would appear to have acted very reasonably and their legal representatives shouldn't have too harder job in convincing the court that Langston have bent over backwards trying to negotiate an amicable settlement.

In my humble opinion I think the edbt will revert back to 24 million, this will hang over the club with the 15 million we now owe VT. If the club do get promoted then Vt can deal with Sam and look forward to the riches that could come from the Prem, if it goes tits up he can walk away with us owing him 15 million, but by then he may have sold as much of the assets as he can.

The debt and problem could just keep being passed on and on.

The debt can only go back to £24m by Sam going to court.

I sincerely hope that doesnt happen.

VT will lose the £5-£6m he's put in in shares if we go into admin, but he'll get a good chunk of anyhting else he's owed by selling off the silver, next would be PMG and Sam and the other shareholder would be left with nothing -and the fans... well who gives a shit about us.

IMO if the matter did go back to court Langston would appear to have acted very reasonably and their legal representatives shouldn't have too harder job in convincing the court that Langston have bent over backwards trying to negotiate an amicable settlement.

It wouldnt actually be about that though. It would be to determine which agreement was valid.
Would require an expensive full trial.
And after all that IF Sam was to win, the club would be put into admin as it would clearly be insolvent.

As to the negotiations, we've only heard one side of things, and then through a 3rd party, who knows what has been said or written in their private conversations.
Just wish we didnt have this crap to deal with really.

There is much more to this than we will ever know. I do not claim to be a legal expert, but the way the debt has dropped from the original £30m, or whatever, suggests that there may have been a penalty clause(s) in the contract. Liquidated damages are payable but penalty claims are not, for an explanation visit http://www.gillhams.com/articles/326.cfm

Different cultures approach negotiations in different ways and I was reminded of a story about negotiations after the Vietnam war. The Americans moved their delegation into a five star hotel expecting the negotiations to be sorted out quickly. The Vietnamese rented a villa, knowing full well that it would take a considerable amount of time to reach agreement, and it did.

Obviously, we all hope the matter can be resolved soon and the club can move forward with this debt resolved.

Like the rest of you I have no idea how the matter will be resolved but I have a strong inkling that VT is not going to be bullied into kowtowing to a SH deadline. I have to believe that there are questions to be answered about the debt: how was it accumalated; why was it allowed to grow to such an amount; etc? Are all the debts to the consultancy firm owned by SH or are they purely monies that were loaned to CCFC by SH? If the former then it smacks of incompentence on behalf of the consultancy firm and if the latter then I believe that SH as the owner of the club he should eat the the losses accrued under his watch. But there again I am not a lawyer and they will be the only winners in this sad affair.

Imo i think sam has been more than patient.the club owe him millions he should be entitled to his money

Imo i think sam has been more than patient.the club owe him millions he should be entitled to his money

Even if it means the club go under ?

the loan notes were only ever seen once by directors and they were unsigned and certainly did not have any reference to langston attached to them in any way.
Sams problem here is that in the summary judgement court case it was denied he was anything to do with langston although the judge in his summing up indicated that if it ever went to a full trial there would have to be full disclosure and in his opinion sam and langston would be found to be one and the same person.
I have always thought that langston was set up as a vehicle for sam to get his money back and that the money originally came from one of sams previous comanies rudgewick(allegedly)
All that said sam did lift this club up off its backside and raise its profile to new levels and if he is willing to accept 7 million then as far as im concerned i hope he gets that money this month and its and end to the matter and everybody moves on.
I dont believe the malaysians are niave enough to let a 7 million debt double or even triple itself by missing a so called december 31st deadline and if this deadline is missed it would indicate that they are confident that they have enough evidence to maybe squeeze langston/sam further.

the loan notes were only ever seen once by directors and they were unsigned and certainly did not have any reference to langston attached to them in any way.
Sams problem here is that in the summary judgement court case it was denied he was anything to do with langston although the judge in his summing up indicated that if it ever went to a full trial there would have to be full disclosure and in his opinion sam and langston would be found to be one and the same person.
I have always thought that langston was set up as a vehicle for sam to get his money back and that the money originally came from one of sams previous comanies rudgewick(allegedly)
All that said sam did lift this club up off its backside and raise its profile to new levels and if he is willing to accept 7 million then as far as im concerned i hope he gets that money this month and its and end to the matter and everybody moves on.
I dont believe the malaysians are niave enough to let a 7 million debt double or even triple itself by missing a so called december 31st deadline and if this deadline is missed it would indicate that they are confident that they have enough evidence to maybe squeeze langston/sam further.

I have never understood why Sam being Langston was such a big issue? At the end of the day someone lent the club £24m and it is repayable in full by 2016 if there is no deal by 31 December this year.

So there is another option that Sam/Langston could sit on their backsides for another 4 years and collect the full £24m plus interest without a need to return to court.

Therefore I agree fully with you Steve that VT will have this sorted very soon, probably for £7m which may be a mixture of cash and shares.

IMO if the matter did go back to court Langston would appear to have acted very reasonably and their legal representatives shouldn't have too harder job in convincing the court that Langston have bent over backwards trying to negotiate an amicable settlement.

It wouldnt actually be about that though. It would be to determine which agreement was valid.
Would require an expensive full trial.
And after all that IF Sam was to win, the club would be put into admin as it would clearly be insolvent.

As to the negotiations, we've only heard one side of things, and then through a 3rd party, who knows what has been said or written in their private conversations.
Just wish we didnt have this crap to deal with really.

That is true to a point, but believe me Civil Courts are all about who can throw most shit at the other side. I have personal experience of it and whilst there might be some legal disputes which would be relevant to contract law, the side that can show it acted with the best intentions of avoiding a return to court will have a very powerful weapon indeed.