Is it time for THE TRUST to back the demo

let's have your views

I think they should

It's just a thought because in my view it would ramp up the pressure even more on the board. I presume Leeds and Barnsley also have a fans trust maybe they could all liaise and organise a super demo including all 3 sets of fans. I would imagine action like this would publicise the trust even more as there are no doubt many fans who don't even realise it exists and would undoubtedly lead to a swelling of it's membership, which can only be a good thing.

Have the supporters club come out in support of the demo? Have they asked their members to join the march?

Have the supporters club come out in support of the demo? Have they asked their members to join the march?

No not yet.

Yes it is, but tlg is determined to try to stop us getting support.

I am now totally against the TRUST, we should all be united and support our fellow fans against this Board.

What is your problem with TLG?

The only things I've seen him say are when he's asking what the actual aim of the protest is, and he also was asking about whether the protest is a Ridsdale out protest as it was originally or against the whole board?

You can't really expect the trust to pledge their support to it, when nobody really knows that the main aims are. At least we have a lot of the main trust members behind it, but they can't make the rest of the trust members march

I would Love The Trust to back US,but thats up to them, Everyone is entitled to their views.

Corky, HeathBlue,Mike Rodrick plus many more from the Trust are Turning up for the March.

I thought we are supporting the march,many members will be on it...we are not the organisers, it is a march made up of all groups of people, thats what I thought.The supporters club are not organisers either nor are they actually backing it but I would hope many of their members will also attend

The police have powers and if anything at all goes wrong then the organisers will be arrested and have to accept responsibility,so there is no actual organisers nobody can be held accountable.

It is individual choice and people will attend if they feel strongly enough...I will definately be there and hope my mates also make the effort.

I thought we are supporting the march,many members will be on it...we are not the organisers, it is a march made up of all groups of people, thats what I thought.The supporters club are not organisers either nor are they actually backing it but I would hope many of their members will also attend

The police have powers and if anything at all goes wrong then the organisers will be arrested and have to accept responsibility,so there is no actual organisers nobody can be held accountable.

It is individual choice and people will attend if they feel strongly enough...I will definately be there and hope my mates also make the effort.

It's great that individuals such as yourself are supporting the demo. However it would send a far more powerful message to the board if the Demo was backed by the "Trust" and for there to be a banner at the demo saying so. As it would also be great if there was a message of support for the demonstration from Leeds and Barnsley supporters trusts respectively. This is something the trust could do by liaising with Leeds and Barnsley supporters trusts. Again in my view this would add more potency to the message if our demo was being backed by the football family in general. I see no reason why we could not get the support of many football clubs supporters trusts but first we need the backing of our own. Yes we all have rivalries on match days but we are tied together by the same thing, our love for football and in my view people like Peter Ridsdale should be banished from the game from for what they do to our sport.

in the words of the meerkat.....

simples..


YES

If an aim for the demo is required before the Trust will back the demo then the aim of the demo should be an oppotunity for the supporter base to express their total disstatsfaction with the way the club is being run.

It is a simple catch all expression which might include an individual desire for Ridsdale or the whole board to be removed or a full unedited explanation to how the we ever got into this mess and what was the motivation for lying to the fans over the Golden Ticket Scheme.

Either way I would find it hard to believe there would be anyone who would disagree with that aim.

I would have thought the aim of the demo is for the fans to express their dissatisfaction in the way our club is being run financially. It will then be for the shareholders and board to decide what they want and need to do. People need to be made responsible for the total missmanagement of our club.

I would have thought the aim of the demo is for the fans to express their dissatisfaction in the way our club is being run financially. It will then be for the shareholders and board to decide what they want and need to do. People need to be made responsible for the total missmanagement of our club.

Totally agree that has to be the aim of the demo and I simply can't understand the fuss kicked up by those question what the aim is.

Surely it is pretty dam obvious.

This is a public mesageboard and you keep putting me on the spot so I will have answer you will not leave it rest....

Any march or parade needs police permission and a lot of planning and the police will always hold the organisers responsible for any trouble,,,that is why NOBODY is heading this march, no single individual, or fans organisation can be made accountable if it goes tits up.

When we was on strike in 1984 often there would be plants put into our peaceful marches, demos, they would start trouble, the police then had an excuse to steam into the miners and arrest the organisers...taking the head off the snake so to speak...not saying this will happen but you never know.

It has been advertised in the papers so it is common knowledge now and I am unaware if the march has been authorised or if the health and safey certificates and first aid provisions are in place, all these things and more would have to be sorted if the Trust or Supporters club were officially involved in the march...So,, to the best of my knowledge there is no individual or supporters organisation responsible, just like minded fans fed up with the way our football club is being sucked dry of its future income streams.

Like I have said on numerous occasions there are many trust members marching and probably many CCSC members marching but all as individuals.I am looking forward to showing my disgust and anger at the way the club has been run...I hope thousands join us.

When Vince held a Demo in WBA...It was all done under certain rules and regulations, the police warned Vince that certain things had to be put in place and if anything went wrong or Cardiff fans caused any problems...Vince and the supporters club were the ones that would be accountable.

This is a public mesageboard and you keep putting me on the spot so I will have answer you will not leave it rest....

Any march or parade needs police permission and a lot of planning and the police will always hold the organisers responsible for any trouble,,,that is why NOBODY is heading this march, no single individual, or fans organisation can be made accountable if it goes tits up.

When we was on strike in 1984 often there would be plants put into our peaceful marches, demos, they would start trouble, the police then had an excuse to steam into the miners and arrest the organisers...taking the head off the snake so to speak...not saying this will happen but you never know.

It has been advertised in the papers so it is common knowledge now and I am unaware if the march has been authorised or if the health and safey certificates and first aid provisions are in place, all these things and more would have to be sorted if the Trust or Supporters club were officially involved in the march...So,, to the best of my knowledge there is no individual or supporters organisation responsible, just like minded fans fed up with the way our football club is being sucked dry of its future income streams.

Like I have said on numerous occasions there are many trust members marching and probably many CCSC members marching but all as individuals.I am looking forward to showing my disgust and anger at the way the club has been run...I hope thousands join us.

When Vince held a Demo in WBA...It was all done under certain rules and regulations, the police warned Vince that certain things had to be put in place and if anything went wrong or Cardiff fans caused any problems...Vince and the supporters club were the ones that would be accountable.

So it never really mattered what the aim was then? Fair enough if it avoids anyone getting into trouble and I'm happy that all the prominant high profile supporters are 'individually' backing the demo.

My aim has always been to show my anger at the way we are being treated.

But health and safety etc ha ha has crossed my mind

:D

My aim has always been to show my anger at the way we are being treated.

But health and safety etc ha ha has crossed my mind

whos health and saftey ridsdale and co

So a Trust set up to represent us, does not want to actually organise or coordinate fan action?

At least something is being done now. Might as well fold the Trust as it is and go with the direct action groups who seem to be able to generate some results. The Trust is a complete failure.

Yes it is, but tlg is determined to try to stop us getting support.

I am now totally against the TRUST, we should all be united and support our fellow fans against this Board.

No suprise.

who is tlg and what is his agenda or his plan to rid the city of these parasites

So a Trust set up to represent us, does not want to actually organise or coordinate fan action?

At least something is being done now. Might as well fold the Trust as it is and go with the direct action groups who seem to be able to generate some results. The Trust is a complete failure.

Just out of interest , are you a member of the Trust? I don`t have a list of members with me , so can`t check if you are one of the members we have been elected to represent.

And if you are , have you asked the Trust board to organise or co-ordinate such action? If you have , I will check with my fellow board members tonight who you asked and what they did about it.

If you are not a member of the Trust or haven`t asked us for the fan action you refer to , I really don`t think it is fair to criticise like you do. How can you say the Trust doesn`t represent you properly if you haven`t even joined it?

As for the direct action groups "who seem to be able to generate some results" , could you explain what those results have been?

I am not criticising any such groups at all. Indeed , the march Annis is organising for Saturday will have my full personal support as an individual fan.I see a place for both such events and the more measured formal approach that the Trust takes on the instruction of its members. I hope it succeeds in getting much needed change at the club , but to claim positive results so far is premature.

So a Trust set up to represent us, does not want to actually organise or coordinate fan action?

At least something is being done now. Might as well fold the Trust as it is and go with the direct action groups who seem to be able to generate some results. The Trust is a complete failure.

Just out of interest , are you a member of the Trust? I don`t have a list of members with me , so can`t check if you are one of the members we have been elected to represent.

And if you are , have you asked the Trust board to organise or co-ordinate such action? If you have , I will check with my fellow board members tonight who you asked and what they did about it.

If you are not a member of the Trust or haven`t asked us for the fan action you refer to , I really don`t think it is fair to criticise like you do. How can you say the Trust doesn`t represent you properly if you haven`t even joined it?

As for the direct action groups "who seem to be able to generate some results" , could you explain what those results have been?

I am not criticising any such groups at all. Indeed , the march Annis is organising for Saturday will have my full personal support as an individual fan.I see a place for both such events and the more measured formal approach that the Trust takes on the instruction of its members. I hope it succeeds in getting much needed change at the club , but to claim positive results so far is premature.

I think the predicament the club is in now needs fighting on as many fronts as possible, this being direct action such as the march and the formal approach made by the Trust. All these actions have the same needed impact of putting pressure on the board.

So a Trust set up to represent us, does not want to actually organise or coordinate fan action?

At least something is being done now. Might as well fold the Trust as it is and go with the direct action groups who seem to be able to generate some results. The Trust is a complete failure.

Just out of interest , are you a member of the Trust? I don`t have a list of members with me , so can`t check if you are one of the members we have been elected to represent.

And if you are , have you asked the Trust board to organise or co-ordinate such action? If you have , I will check with my fellow board members tonight who you asked and what they did about it.

If you are not a member of the Trust or haven`t asked us for the fan action you refer to , I really don`t think it is fair to criticise like you do. How can you say the Trust doesn`t represent you properly if you haven`t even joined it?

As for the direct action groups "who seem to be able to generate some results" , could you explain what those results have been?

I am not criticising any such groups at all. Indeed , the march Annis is organising for Saturday will have my full personal support as an individual fan.I see a place for both such events and the more measured formal approach that the Trust takes on the instruction of its members. I hope it succeeds in getting much needed change at the club , but to claim positive results so far is premature.

I think you will find that at least one Trust Member has requested the Trust's backing of the protest and several other prominent organisers are also Trust members. There has been an explanation to why the Trust won’t officially get involved, but of course any individual can judge whether the explanation is good enough.

TBH Keith I think the way you have singled out BlooDan as being potentially not a member and hiding behind that ‘possibility’ for not giving a straight answer is not very helpful and does nothing for the perception of the Trust.

It simply makes you look Ridsdalish with excuses to avoid the issue and the fact you didn't know at least one Trust Members had made such request again is not very good.

That said I still believe strongly in the Trust and believe you have completed some excellent work. That said it was set up to give fans via membership a collective voice. What you need to do is start listening to those voices and responds positively rather than talk down to fellow fan whether he/she is a member or not.

As for positive results the demo was just mentioned on Real Radio and has half a page coverage in the Echo. That's certainly a result and a positive one IMO.

Pressure now should be for them to ensure they make our club an attractive option for any interested investors...plenty of money was made from the development and some of that should be used to cancel debts.

At the moment we have too many debts for a serious investor to take on and a wage bill far outweighing income, ontop of future income streams such as catering and season tickets for next season already swallowed up.

Unless the current lot grow a conscience and put some of their profits into clearing some of the debts they themselves incurred I really can't see any other option than administration.

That is what I am going to encourage the trust to prepare for now, the fans need to be ready to face this because unless these Malayasians or some other group come to the rescue I see no alternative.

So a Trust set up to represent us, does not want to actually organise or coordinate fan action?

At least something is being done now. Might as well fold the Trust as it is and go with the direct action groups who seem to be able to generate some results. The Trust is a complete failure.

Just out of interest , are you a member of the Trust? I don`t have a list of members with me , so can`t check if you are one of the members we have been elected to represent.

And if you are , have you asked the Trust board to organise or co-ordinate such action? If you have , I will check with my fellow board members tonight who you asked and what they did about it.

If you are not a member of the Trust or haven`t asked us for the fan action you refer to , I really don`t think it is fair to criticise like you do. How can you say the Trust doesn`t represent you properly if you haven`t even joined it?

As for the direct action groups "who seem to be able to generate some results" , could you explain what those results have been?

I am not criticising any such groups at all. Indeed , the march Annis is organising for Saturday will have my full personal support as an individual fan.I see a place for both such events and the more measured formal approach that the Trust takes on the instruction of its members. I hope it succeeds in getting much needed change at the club , but to claim positive results so far is premature.

I think you will find that at least one Trust Member has requested the Trust's backing of the protest and several other prominent organisers are also Trust members. There has been an explanation to why the Trust won’t officially get involved, but of course any individual can judge whether the explanation is good enough.

TBH Keith I think the way you have singled out BlooDan as being potentially not a member and hiding behind that ‘possibility’ for not giving a straight answer is not very helpful and does nothing for the perception of the Trust.

It simply makes you look Ridsdalish with excuses to avoid the issue and the fact you didn't know at least one Trust Members had made such request again is not very good.

That said I still believe strongly in the Trust and believe you have completed some excellent work. That said it was set up to give fans via membership a collective voice. What you need to do is start listening to those voices and responds positively rather than talk down to fellow fan whether he/she is a member or not.

As for positive results the demo was just mentioned on Real Radio and has half a page coverage in the Echo. That's certainly a result and a positive one IMO.

Some fair comments there and I apologise if I came across as stroppy in my post to BlooDan.I didn`t mean to talk down to a fellow fan at all. Its just that it gets very frustrating when the Trust gets accused by a fan that they are not representing his interests when that fan can`t even be a*sed to become a member (BlooDan may be a member and rightly feels aggrieved which is why I asked him the question).

I have said that I believe as an individual that the proposed protest march is a good thing and has my support and Corky has said the same. Other Trust board members will have their own views as individuals but Corky has already said why the march should not be attributed to any one individual or group organiser.

I agree that the publicity in the press for the march is a positive in terms of raising awareness of the issues at the club.The Trust has also got loads of publicity , particularly recently.But what I meant by "results" was a major change in either the senior management of the club or the way in which they run it rather than profile raising which is all well and good but not a result in itself. (neither the Trust nor any other methods have yet achieved that , but working together should help considerably).

Keith

This is a good honest and open debate It was not my intention for it to get peoples backs up. I just thought I would pose the question and thanks for the answers. I'll give my own personal diplomatic view. I won't criticise anybody or any specific body for that matter, however I personally give a big thank you to Annis for having the balls to organise the demo and also for asking for a vote of no confidence in our chairman. Well done mate.

Some fair comments there and I apologise if I came across as stroppy in my post to BlooDan.I didn`t mean to talk down to a fellow fan at all. Its just that it gets very frustrating when the Trust gets accused by a fan that they are not representing his interests when that fan can`t even be a*sed to become a member (BlooDan may be a member and rightly feels aggrieved which is why I asked him the question).

I have said that I believe as an individual that the proposed protest march is a good thing and has my support and Corky has said the same. Other Trust board members will have their own views as individuals but Corky has already said why the march should not be attributed to any one individual or group organiser.

I agree that the publicity in the press for the march is a positive in terms of raising awareness of the issues at the club.The Trust has also got loads of publicity , particularly recently.But what I meant by "results" was a major change in either the senior management of the club or the way in which they run it rather than profile raising which is all well and good but not a result in itself. (neither the Trust nor any other methods have yet achieved that , but working together should help considerably).

Keith

Firstly what a fantastic response intelligent proportional and frankly very sensible debate, are you watching CCMB? (sorry for the dig I just couldn't help it)

As I said an excellent explanation and I'm glad you are listening to rather than burying the problems the fan base may have with the Trust.

I read Corky's response earlier to why the Trust was reluctant to organise the demo and because of that I can fully understand why the Trust would shy away from being the official organisers.

However, there is nothing stopping the Trust from officially 'backing' the demo through a press release (I believe you have a press officer).

It is my understanding the Trust has a meeting tonight where a vote could be taken on whether to officially back a peaceful demo. The aim of the march would be to make a statement to the board of CCFC that a significant number of Cardiff City supporters are grieved with the way the club's finances are being run.

If enough Trust Board Members back the motion (even on a majority vote) then this could be done as soon as tomorrow.

I understand your point on major changes but they have to be medium to long term goals because not one particular action is going to get the changes we want.

However, persistent united pressure might one day give us a change in direction.

I think that the problem most supporters have with an organisation like the TRUST is that such organisations are all about reasoned negotiation with the board over what is both fair for supporters and the club. Unfortunately, as has been found by recent events, boards have very little time or respect for the fan base. The board have lied and cheated the fan base, so you cannot have reasoned negotiation with such people. The board only understands money, if that's the case then fans must take the only action left, that is to either withdraw their financial input, which they are unlikely to do as it effects their team, or they make the individuals on the board feel threatened and uncomfortable, maybe enough, to make those individuals decide that they are not wanted and its time to move on. Direct action is now the only way forward as Ridsdale and others have shown that they are not prepared to listen.

Tony that is exactly what was/is going to happen mate.

We also have to seriously consider the future and what we want to try to do for the fans...the march will come and go, and in my opinion it is a great way for many fans to get together and show their feelings at the state we find our club in it will pass by just like the EGM did,at least we can honestly say that both will have put the pressure on the major shareholders, shown them that we are not idiots and that we think that they are not doping all they can to ensure our club is a realistic saleable investment. What next though?

The current major shareholders want out by the looks of things and they seem reliant on investors coming in,what if the investors stay away? Will Paul Guy and the rest of the major shareholders want to payroll our football club?

There surely must be a time where their liabilities outweigh their reasons for not going into administration then we are on a wing and a prayer...just like Pompey and Palace are now...hoping for a future and not knowing if liquidation is just around the corner.

What the Trust will do in the next stage is work with Supporters Direct (http://www.supporters-direct.org/home.asp)and other Trusts who have been in this positioin before,we will consider how we deal with the worse case senario that is administration...we will prepare to work with an administrator when one would be appointed...We have set the Trust up with a strong constitution and methodology in readiness to represent the fans in times of such a crisis.
Portsmouth fans had no Trust six weeks ago and had to try to form one quickly which they have now done...(http://www.pompeytrust.com/)

If that happens we will need even more help especially from volunteers with legal expertise, we are very lucky to have Keith on board who has great knowledge of the administration process. Not everyone will agree with each others methods but like I have said 100's of times we are all on the same side.

We need your input guys its not my Trust it is yours come along to meetings and contribute to the aganda.We could ofcourse just pack it in, it costs me a fortune in petrol and many hours of my time...the volunteers we have all have full time jobs and give up time after work...it is a purely a volunteer group just trying their best for the fans...

Tony that is exactly what was/is going to happen mate.

We also have to seriously consider the future and what we want to try to do for the fans...the march will come and go, and in my opinion it is a great way for many fans to get together and show their feelings at the state we find our club in it will pass by just like the EGM did,at least we can honestly say that both will have put the pressure on the major shareholders, shown them that we are not idiots and that we think that they are not doping all they can to ensure our club is a realistic saleable investment. What next though?

The current major shareholders want out by the looks of things and they seem reliant on investors coming in,what if the investors stay away? Will Paul Guy and the rest of the major shareholders want to payroll our football club?

There surely must be a time where their liabilities outweigh their reasons for not going into administration then we are on a wing and a prayer...just like Pompey and Palace are now...hoping for a future and not knowing if liquidation is just around the corner.

What the Trust will do in the next stage is work with Supporters Direct (http://www.supporters-direct.org/home.asp)and other Trusts who have been in this positioin before,we will consider how we deal with the worse case senario that is administration...we will prepare to work with an administrator when one would be appointed...We have set the Trust up with a strong constitution and methodology in readiness to represent the fans in times of such a crisis.
Portsmouth fans had no Trust six weeks ago and had to try to form one quickly which they have now done...(http://www.pompeytrust.com/)

If that happens we will need even more help especially from volunteers with legal expertise, we are very lucky to have Keith on board who has great knowledge of the administration process. Not everyone will agree with each others methods but like I have said 100's of times we are all on the same side.

We need your input guys its not my Trust it is yours come along to meetings and contribute to the aganda.We could ofcourse just pack it in, it costs me a fortune in petrol and many hours of my time...the volunteers we have all have full time jobs and give up time after work...it is a purely a volunteer group just trying their best for the fans...

Thanks for that very informative and you have my full backing. If the Trust needs extra help put up a thread to what is exactly needed and I'm sure there are plenty of us who would help.