Stand up for your believing

Everybody is entitled to his own opinions, and I will voice my views openly and freely. Nobody, no matter how powerful, will shut me up. I was brought up that way, stand up for your believings and dont bow down to mighty "leaders"...

prob got to do with our past, as today we celebrate real German heroes, who had the balls to do something against opression and dictatorship, facing death if caught.



These people were real heroes, all involved in the plot to kill Hitler (Operation Valkyrie):

Major Wolfgang Abshagen
Oberst Otto Armster
Otto Baer jun.
Gertrud Beck, geb. Müller
Generaloberst Ludwig August Theodor Beck
Oberstleutnant i.G. Robert Bernardis
Botschaftsrat a.D. Albrecht Graf von Bernstorff
Gottfried Graf von Bismarck-Schönhausen
Major Hans-Jürgen Graf von Blumenthal
Oberstleutnant i.G. Hasso von Boehmer
Eugen Anton Bolz
Oberst Georg Freiherr von Boeselager
Major Philipp Freiherr von Boeselager
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Klaus Hans Martin Bonhoeffer
Randolph Freiherr von Breidbach-Bürresheim
Rittmeister Arthur Eberhard Börries Wolf Alfred von Breitenbuch
Eduard Brücklmeier
Major Axel Freiherr von dem Bussche-Streithorst
Oscar Caminneci
Admiral Wilhelm Canaris
Walter Cramer
Gustav Dahrendorf
Alfred Delp, Pater S.J.
Oberregierungsrat Wilhelm Dieckmann
Heinrich Graf von Dohna-Schlobitten, Gutsbesitzer
Reichsgerichtsrat Hans von Dohnanyi
Oberleutnant Hans-Martin Dorsch
Hauptmann Max Ulrich Graf von Drechsel
Georg Ferdinand Duckwitz
Hauptmann Albrecht Eggert
Fritz Elsas
Oberstleutnant i.G. Karl Heinz Engelhorn
Oberstleutnant Hans Otto Erdmann
General der Infanterie Alexander Freiherr von Falkenhausen
General der Nachrichtentruppe Erich Fellgiebel
Oberst i.G. Eberhard Finckh
Albrecht Fischer
Max Fleischmann
Reinhold Frank
Ehrengard Frank-Schultz
Oberst i.G. Wessel Freiherr von Freytag-Loringhoven
Walter Frick, Kaufmann
Generaloberst Friedrich Fromm
Otto Heinrich von der Gablentz
Hauptmann Ludwig Gehre
Oberst Rudolph-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff
Eugen Gerstenmaier
Hans Bernd Gisevius
Erich Gloeden
Elisabeth Charlotte Gloeden
Carl Friedrich Goerdeler
Fritz Goerdeler
Oberst i.G. Helmuth Groscurth
Nikolaus Groß
Karl Ludwig Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg
Max Habermann
Hans Bernd von Haeften
Oberleutnant Werner von Haeften
Leutnant d.R. Albrecht von Hagen
Oberst Kurt Hahn
Staatssekretär a.D. Eduard Hamm
Oberst i.G. Georg Hansen
Oberst i.G. Bodo von Harbou
Oberstleutnant i.G. Carl-Hans Graf von Hardenberg
Regierungspräsident a.D. Ernst von Harnack
Generalleutnant Paul von Hase, Kommandant von Berlin
Ulrich von Hassell,
Theodor Haubach
Albrecht-Georg Haushofer
Major i.G. Egbert Hayessen
Oberstleutnant Friedrich Wilhelm Heinz
Generalleutnant Gustav Heisterman von Ziehlberg
Wolf-Heinrich Graf von Helldorf
Generalmajor Otto Herfurth
Andreas Hermes
Generalleutnant Adolf Heusinger
Generaloberst Erich Hoepner
Oberstleutnant d. R. Caesar von Hofacker
Richard Hoin
Major Roland von Hößlin
Ernst Otto Hübener
Oberst Friedrich Gustav Jaeger
Max Jennewein
Jens Jessen
Hans John
Otto John
Oberleutnant d.R. Hermann Kaiser
Jakob Kaiser
Oberkriegsgerichtsrat d. Res. beim OKH Ludwig Kaiser
Franz Kempner
Albrecht von Kessel
Otto Kiep
Major der Reserve Georg Conrad Kißling
Oberstleutnant Bernhard Klamroth
Major der Reserve bei der Abwehr (Nachrichtendienst) Hans Georg Klamroth
Hauptmann Friedrich Karl Klausing
Ewald von Kleist-Schmenzin
Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist-Schmenzin
Major Gerhard Knaak
Hans Koch, Rechtsanwalt
Heinrich Kodré
Heinrich Körner
Korvettenkapitän Alfred Kranzfelder
Oberstleutnant i. G. Wilhelm Kuebart
Legationsrat Richard Kuenzer
Major i.G. Joachim Kuhn
Generalmajor Wilhelm Kunze
Generalmajor Erwin von Lahousen-Vivremont
Oberstleutnant Fritz von der Lancken
Carl Langbehn
Julius Leber
Oberleutnant d. R. Heinrich Graf von Lehndorff-Steinort
Paul Lejeune-Jung
Major Ludwig Freiherr von Leonrod
Hauptmann im OKW Bernhard Letterhaus
Franz Leuninger
Wilhelm Leuschner
General der Artillerie Fritz Lindemann
Oberst i.G. Hans Otfried von Linstow
Paul Löbe
Ewald Loeser
Ferdinand Freiherr von Lüninck
Major Wilhelm Graf zu Lynar
Hermann Maaß
Oberst Rudolf Graf von Marogna-Redwitz
Carl Adolf Marks
Michael Graf von Matuschka
Oberst i.G. Joachim Meichßner
Oberst Albrecht Ritter Mertz von Quirnheim
Oberstleutnant i.G. Karl Michel
Carlo Mierendorff
Helmuth James Graf von Moltke
Prälat Otto Müller
Oberst Wolfgang Müller
Oberstleutnant Ernst Munzinger
Reichskriminaldirektor Arthur Nebe
Wilhelm zur Nieden
Gustav Noske
Major i.G. Hans-Ulrich von Oertzen
General der Infanterie Friedrich Olbricht
Generalmajor Hans Oster
Margarethe von Oven
Friedrich Justus Perels
Staatssekretär a.D. Erwin Planck
Karl Georg Pfleiderer
Kurt Freiherr von Plettenberg
Louis Ferdinand von Preußen
Johannes Popitz
Cuno Raabe
General Friedrich von Rabenau
Oberstleutnant i. G. Karl Ernst Rahtgens
Adolf Reichwein, führender Sozialdemokrat
Oberst Alexis Freiherr von Roenne
Generalfeldmarschall Erwin Rommel
Generalstabsrichter Karl Sack
Oberstleutnant i.G. Joachim Sadrozinski
Anton Saefkow
Major Hans-Viktor Graf von Salviati
Major Adolf Friedrich Graf von Schack
Oberleutnant Fabian von Schlabrendorff
Rüdiger Schleicher
Ernst Schneppenhorst
Otto Schniewind
Rittmeister d. R. Friedrich Scholz-Babisch
Oberst Hermann Schöne
Oberstleutnant Werner Schrader
Botschafter Friedrich Werner Graf von der Schulenburg
Regierungspräsident Fritz-Dietlof Graf von der Schulenburg
Oberst i.G. Georg Schulze-Büttger
Staatsrat a.D. Ludwig Schwamb
Offizier im OKW Ulrich Wilhelm Graf Schwerin von Schwanenfeld
Hans Ludwig Sierks, Bauingenieur
Oberstleutnant i.G. Günther Smend
Franz Sperr
Oberst Wilhelm Staehle
Hanna Solf
Friedrich Hermann Fürst zu Solms-Baruth
Marineoberstabsrichter Berthold Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg
Oberst i.G. Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg
Oberst i.G. Hans-Joachim Freiherr von Steinaecker
Offizier im Generalstab Theodor Steltzer
Generalmajor Hellmuth Stieff
Hauptmann d. R. im OKW Theodor Strünck
General Carl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel
Major Carl Szokoll
Oberstleutnant Gustav Tellgmann
Generalleutnant Fritz Thiele
Major Busso Thoma
Generalleutnant Karl Freiherr von Thüngen
Oberstleutnant Gerd von Tresckow
Generalmajor Henning von Tresckow
Legationsrat Adam von Trott zu Solz
Oberst z.V. Nikolaus Graf von Üxküll-Gyllenband
Fritz Voigt
Oberstleutnant Hans-Alexander von Voss
General der Artillerie Eduard Wagner
Oberst Siegfried Wagner
Hermann Josef Wehrle
Carl Wentzel
Joseph Wirmer
Oswald Wiersich
Generalfeldmarschall Erwin von Witzleben
Oberregierungsrat Peter Graf Yorck von Wartenburg
Paul Graf Yorck von Wartenburg Neureichenau

They are called beliefs.

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

Are you comparing the oppression of Hitler to the changing of a badge and kit colour? Really?

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

no point of shutting you up, as you are misinformed...

there were more attempts to kill Hitler, but as this operation was the most spectacular and cost more lives than the previous attempts, this one is our rememberance day for all people of the German resistance movement.

for your knowledge, there were 19 attempts to kill Hitler (which all failed), and officially 20 planned assasinations, which were prevented by the GeStaPo and secret units. All those were planned and carried out by Germans, not mentioning the plots by the Allies to kill Hitler.

R.I.P. to all of them, who had the guts trying to stop this madman

Are you comparing the oppression of Hitler to the changing of a badge and kit colour? Really?

nope

Are you comparing the oppression of Hitler to the changing of a badge and kit colour? Really?

Yea I think he is, apparently we are ruled by Herr Vincent the evil dictator

Are you comparing the oppression of Hitler to the changing of a badge and kit colour? Really?

Yea I think he is, apparently we are ruled by Herr Vincent the evil dictator

funny you see it that way...

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

no point of shutting you up, as you are misinformed...

there were more attempts to kill Hitler, but as this operation was the most spectacular and cost more lives than the previous attempts, this one is our rememberance day for all people of the German resistance movement.

for your knowledge, there were 19 attempts to kill Hitler (which all failed), and officially 20 planned assasinations, which were prevented by the GeStaPo and secret units. All those were planned and carried out by Germans, not mentioning the plots by the Allies to kill Hitler.

R.I.P. to all of them, who had the guts trying to stop this madman

Shame Germans can't do assonations like they build cars Bloody hell who was aiming the gun during those failed attempts Kenny Miller? because you would need an expert to miss the target 20 times on the trot.

Being serious that still doesn't absolve those mentioned above as they did nothing to oppose Hitler until operation Valkyrie, otherwise they would have been arrested or killed earlier. If you want heroes then why not print the names of those who attempted the earlier assonations?

I still say that the biggest heroes of WWII were the population of the UK and without them Hitler would have rode home at a canter and your 'heroes' above wouldn't have lifted a finger to stop him.

If you want heroes then why not print the names of those who attempted the earlier assonations?

I explained the reasons earlier.
there were many unsung heroes in WWII, the turning point was the battle of the Atlantic, btw.

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

no point of shutting you up, as you are misinformed...

there were more attempts to kill Hitler, but as this operation was the most spectacular and cost more lives than the previous attempts, this one is our rememberance day for all people of the German resistance movement.

for your knowledge, there were 19 attempts to kill Hitler (which all failed), and officially 20 planned assasinations, which were prevented by the GeStaPo and secret units. All those were planned and carried out by Germans, not mentioning the plots by the Allies to kill Hitler.

R.I.P. to all of them, who had the guts trying to stop this madman

Shame Germans can't do assonations like they build cars Bloody hell who was aiming the gun during those failed attempts Kenny Miller? because you would need an expert to miss the target 20 times on the trot.

Being serious that still doesn't absolve those mentioned above as they did nothing to oppose Hitler until operation Valkyrie, otherwise they would have been arrested or killed earlier. If you want heroes then why not print the names of those who attempted the earlier assonations?

I still say that the biggest heroes of WWII were the population of the UK and without them Hitler would have rode home at a canter and your 'heroes' above wouldn't have lifted a finger to stop him.

I dont think you can really say that the heroes of WW11 were the UK populace. Nearly every country in the world was affected and each country had people making sacrifices. The Poles suffered dreadfully for example look at the Warsaw uprising had the Germans rocking and lets face it were let down by the Allied leaders who despite a few airdrops satback.Over 13m innocents died in Poland and all the occupied countries had resistance. In respect to Germany whilst Hitler rose to power why should they want him killed ? Yes we had the night of long lives and anti semtitic but it was nothing to what Hitler was doing whilst in power and the people that had supported could see the end was inevitable and his persecution policies were morally wrong and sinister. They amongst extreme oppression rose up and tried to kill him knowing the consequence I think that takes bollocks by any stretch of the imagination.

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

no point of shutting you up, as you are misinformed...

there were more attempts to kill Hitler, but as this operation was the most spectacular and cost more lives than the previous attempts, this one is our rememberance day for all people of the German resistance movement.

for your knowledge, there were 19 attempts to kill Hitler (which all failed), and officially 20 planned assasinations, which were prevented by the GeStaPo and secret units. All those were planned and carried out by Germans, not mentioning the plots by the Allies to kill Hitler.

R.I.P. to all of them, who had the guts trying to stop this madman

Sorry to pull you up on this Hof.

There were around 200 attempts to kill the socialist tw*t from the right wing alone. There is a very interesting Nat Geo or History Chanel programme, part of the "Hitlers" or "Nazi secrets" series on this subject and to be honest I wouldn't have thought it wouldn't have that amount. One of the interviews is with an Austrian guy who applied to the Austrian School of Art at the same time as adolf in around 1920 ish. Three guys (the other is dead I think) for two places, adolf didn't get in.

If adolf had got that place in the art school, the world would be a totally different place.

The British and or the Yanks could have taken him out but feared uprising from the workers so convenient to let the German people take on the Russians.

I'll join you in respecting and indeed all the people that have fallen. It is up to us, the ordinary folk, to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Pity they hadnt rose up and killed him before he killed millions of innocent people.

I dont think you can really say that the heroes of WW11 were the UK populace. Nearly every country in the world was affected and each country had people making sacrifices. The Poles suffered dreadfully for example look at the Warsaw uprising had the Germans rocking and lets face it were let down by the Allied leaders who despite a few airdrops satback.Over 13m innocents died in Poland and all the occupied countries had resistance. In respect to Germany whilst Hitler rose to power why should they want him killed ? Yes we had the night of long lives and anti semtitic but it was nothing to what Hitler was doing whilst in power and the people that had supported could see the end was inevitable and his persecution policies were morally wrong and sinister. They amongst extreme oppression rose up and tried to kill him knowing the consequence I think that takes bollocks by any stretch of the imagination.

spot on

most people are forgetting how and why Hitler became what he was. And the fact, that most people in Germany didnt know what was really happening. And the majority of those who knew, were just too scared it could be them next. Those were bad times and people should never forget what happend to prevent history repeat itself.

Pity they hadnt rose up and killed him before he killed millions of innocent people.

agree

There were also many germans who helped prevent many more murders towards the jewish populace and others that the gestapo tried to kill

I dont think you can really say that the heroes of WW11 were the UK populace. Nearly every country in the world was affected and each country had people making sacrifices. The Poles suffered dreadfully for example look at the Warsaw uprising had the Germans rocking and lets face it were let down by the Allied leaders who despite a few airdrops satback.Over 13m innocents died in Poland and all the occupied countries had resistance. In respect to Germany whilst Hitler rose to power why should they want him killed ? Yes we had the night of long lives and anti semtitic but it was nothing to what Hitler was doing whilst in power and the people that had supported could see the end was inevitable and his persecution policies were morally wrong and sinister. They amongst extreme oppression rose up and tried to kill him knowing the consequence I think that takes bollocks by any stretch of the imagination.

spot on

most people are forgetting how and why Hitler became what he was. And the fact, that most people in Germany didnt know what was really happening. And the majority of those who knew, were just too scared it could be them next. Those were bad times and people should never forget what happend to prevent history repeat itself.

Thats right I have studied all aspects of History primarily Greek/Roman but also enjoy modern history. Sadly its easy to blame without looking at the facts. The Germans themselves were victims of terrible atrocities with the Red Army advance not to mention events post war in Czech Republic and force marching German speaking populace out killing countless people. All wars are brutal and savage and ultimatly there are victims on all sides.

Sorry to pull you up on this Hof.

There were around 200 attempts to kill the socialist tw*t from the right wing alone. There is a very interesting Nat Geo or History Chanel programme, part of the "Hitlers" or "Nazi secrets" series on this subject and to be honest I wouldn't have thought it wouldn't have that amount. One of the interviews is with an Austrian guy who applied to the Austrian School of Art at the same time as adolf in around 1920 ish. Three guys (the other is dead I think) for two places, adolf didn't get in.

If adolf had got that place in the art school, the world would be a totally different place.

The British and or the Yanks could have taken him out but feared uprising from the workers so convenient to let the German people take on the Russians.

I'll join you in respecting and indeed all the people that have fallen. It is up to us, the ordinary folk, to ensure it doesn't happen again.

I was talking about the German resistance movement during the war, and those 19 failed assassinations are the official figures. Those are the ones we remember today, the 20.July resistance stand for all German citizens, soldiers, officials, civilians etc who rose against the Nazi dictatorship

My personal heroes were Sophie and Hans Scholl (White Rose movement), amazing biography. Both were students who were non-violent activists, tried to inform the population about the Holocaust and the horrors of the war at the Eastern Front. Both were executed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Scholl
I believe most people outside Germany have never heard of them...

Thats right I have studied all aspects of History primarily Greek/Roman but also enjoy modern history. Sadly its easy to blame without looking at the facts. The Germans themselves were victims of terrible atrocities with the Red Army advance not to mention events post war in Czech Republic and force marching German speaking populace out killing countless people. All wars are brutal and savage and ultimatly there are victims on all sides.

my Dad's family is from Sudetenland, ethnic Germans who suffered badly and escaped death a few times. My Dad was lined up against a wall to get executed as 6 year old (for being German) and only because of a couragous Czech officer he and my Grandmother, my uncle and 2 aunts werent shot dead. Others werent as lucky...

Agree with you 100%.

I dont think you can really say that the heroes of WW11 were the UK populace. Nearly every country in the world was affected and each country had people making sacrifices. The Poles suffered dreadfully for example look at the Warsaw uprising had the Germans rocking and lets face it were let down by the Allied leaders who despite a few airdrops satback.Over 13m innocents died in Poland and all the occupied countries had resistance. In respect to Germany whilst Hitler rose to power why should they want him killed ? Yes we had the night of long lives and anti semtitic but it was nothing to what Hitler was doing whilst in power and the people that had supported could see the end was inevitable and his persecution policies were morally wrong and sinister. They amongst extreme oppression rose up and tried to kill him knowing the consequence I think that takes bollocks by any stretch of the imagination.

spot on

most people are forgetting how and why Hitler became what he was. And the fact, that most people in Germany didnt know what was really happening. And the majority of those who knew, were just too scared it could be them next. Those were bad times and people should never forget what happend to prevent history repeat itself.

Thats right I have studied all aspects of History primarily Greek/Roman but also enjoy modern history. Sadly its easy to blame without looking at the facts. The Germans themselves were victims of terrible atrocities with the Red Army advance not to mention events post war in Czech Republic and force marching German speaking populace out killing countless people. All wars are brutal and savage and ultimatly there are victims on all sides.

Good post

Are you comparing the oppression of Hitler to the changing of a badge and kit colour? Really?

nope

Where does the allegory to Cardiff then? Or is this simply a thread celebrating those Germans?

The real German heroes were people like Ernst Thaelmann (sorry, might have spelt that wrong), and Erich Hoenecker. The demise of the DDR was the cause of many social problems.

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

Good point everyone seemed happy enough when Germany was at the height of it's power in 1941 conquering all in their path with their blitzkrieg tactics. When they started losing the war then these conspirators decided to try and do something about it. There is a theory that the SOE had plans to assasinate Hitler but these plans were shelved as he seemed to be on a course of self destruction anyway. Could have been a totally different end if the bohemian corporal had only listened to his generals.

be grateful he didnt, e.g. dunkirk. the generals and goering wanted to finish the brits off, but as hitler had plans to make peace with the uk to join up and go against the russians, it never happened. luckily.

One good thing about being an island nation I guess. A huge debt goes to the RAF too. In my original post I hope I didn't sound as if I was in anyway being critical of the July 20 conspirators. What those men did took alot of courage and it's good to see their names are remembered each year. Field Marshall Erwin Rommel also paid with his life for his alleged connections or knowledge of the conspiracy.

Not being funny but if those German Officers were such heroes why did they wait until Hitler was basically f**ked before trying to kill him?

If they had assonated him anytime between 1933 & 1939 they would have been true heroes but instead enjoyed the fruits of their positions until turning on him in desperation when they saw the wind of change in WWII.

If you want real heroes then look no further than the Greatest Generation who ever lived, the population of the UK at that time as they were the real reason for Germany's eventual downfall.

PS Just my opinion, you won't shut me up either

A tad unfair that tony.If we'd have known how he was to turn out when he was made Chancallor in 1933 I think we would not have waited another 6 years to declare war.But its also fair to say in hindsight aswell that those that plotted and failed in that attempt didn't have the greater good of europe on their mind either.