Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:20 am
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:31 am
Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday
Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm
Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners
Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.
Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.
But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.
The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.
One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.
Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.
But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.
Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.
Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.
‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’
Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:15 am
Savigma wrote:Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday
Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm
Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners
Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.
Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.
But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.
The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.
One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.
Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.
But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.
Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.
Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.
‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’
Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:27 am
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:13 am
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:26 am
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:38 am
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:10 am
wez1927 wrote:Savigma wrote:Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday
Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm
Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners
Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.
Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.
But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.
The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.
One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.
Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.
But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.
Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.
Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.
‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’
Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
How is it rubbish ? I bet you the McKay s own it
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:24 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:34 pm
Savigma wrote:wez1927 wrote:Savigma wrote:Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday
Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm
Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners
Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.
Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.
But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.
The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.
One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.
Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.
But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.
Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.
Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.
‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’
Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
How is it rubbish ? I bet you the McKay s own it
It's not the point of the article I'm criticizing, it's the absolutely ignorant wording by the newspaper claiming Emiliano was "Killed". How reliable is this newspaper, if this story was posted somewhere more reliable then I don't see why we don't share that, at least I'm sure if it was a credible article it wouldn't just throw out the suggestion that he was "killed". It's just really poor imo.
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:51 pm
JulesK wrote:Where does it say *killed* as I read * killing*, keep posted Sven .
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:53 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:56 pm
Bluesman wrote:Why would the owner remove and prevent information from becoming public
This has got to be illegal
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:10 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:17 pm
Savigma wrote:Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday
Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm
Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners
Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.
Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.
But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.
The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.
One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.
Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.
But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.
Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.
Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.
‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’
Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:05 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:43 pm
Savigma wrote:Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:49 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:52 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:56 pm
Sven wrote:Savigma wrote:Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
It's a serious situation, fella but not sure why you singled me out for (quote) "posting more rubbish" and you're now running in circles trying to justify yourself and find a way out!
It doesn't really bother me but I am (as are others now) interested. It seems you jumped in without too much real thought and a quick look at your previous posts says a lot!
Was not Emiliano Sala (tragically) "killed" as a result of the plane crashing?
Now, whilst you're giving everyone a lesson in English, let's take a look...
In most cases, the two phrasings can be used interchangeably, but 'killed' does imply that the victim suffered a death that was directly caused by the incident itself and was probably also somewhat violent or at least unnatural; whilst 'died' carries no such implications.
For example, if there is a road traffic collision that isn't particularly serious (everyone is unscathed except for minor cuts and bruises), but old Nan, 92, was so shocked that she had a heart attack from all the commotion and later died from it, then it would be somewhat odd to say that she was 'killed' in the accident. Just like it would be a bit odd to say that she was 'killed' by a heart attack, but perfectly normal to say that she 'died' of a heart attack.
Such situations are quite contrived though and in any normal scenario I can think of, the two are interchangeable but with the generalisation that someone who suffers an untimely, possibly violent death was 'killed', where 'died' is more distanced and neutral
In polite terms, it could also be said that a person 'passed away' (for example at a funeral); specifically because it does not mention 'death' or being 'killed' directly
Perhaps you should read more...!
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:38 pm
SirJimmySchoular wrote:Savigma wrote:Sven wrote:Owner details of crashed aircraft, which was carrying Cardiff's Emiliano Sala, withheld from aviation authority
By Ian Herbert, Nick Harris and Adam Crafton - Mail on Sunday
Plane had been registered in US in name of a British-based trustee firm
Listing with US Federal Aviation Administration states no previous owners
Details of owners of the aircraft which crashed killing Emiliano Sala have been removed or withheld from the Federal Aviation Administration in what appears to a concerted attempt to keep their identity a secret.
Establishing the identity of the owners is a priority of the Air Accidents Investigation Branch, (AIIB) which is examining the crash.
But, as the Mail on Sunday revealed last week, the Piper Malibu has been registered in the US in the name of a British-based trustee firm, Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc, in a way which prevents the actual owner being known.
The 39-year-old aircraft’s listing with the US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) states that there were no previous owners, though the Mail on Sunday is aware of at least two.
One company, whose name is known to this newspaper, has past and present directors based at three UK addresses. But two of those were empty, with all furniture removed, when we visited this week. Staff at one address – a mansion in Nottinghamshire - ordered us to leave the grounds. A woman who arrived at the door of a second immediately slammed it shut and refused to answer questions.
The ownership issue may prove vital to the question of who proves financially liable for the losses incurred by Cardiff City - who are legally bound to pay Nantes for the player who died before he had a chance to kick a ball for them.
Though the FAA listing confirms the craft was first flown in 1984, experts have indicated that there would be no concern about an aircraft that old being in the air and that many even older still are.
But the AIIB is likely to focus on why pilot Dave Ibbotson, who died along with Sala in the crash, chose to embark on the flight from Nantes to Cardiff at night in bitterly cold conditions on January 21.
Two experienced pilots have told the Mail on Sunday that they would not have contemplated such a flight in a single-engine plane on a night on which temperatures were barely above zero. Temperatures will have dropped by 1.98 Celcius for every 1,000ft the aircraft climbed and the pilot could have encountered conditions as cold as -10C at 5,000ft.
Sala told friends in a WhatsApp message that the aircraft ‘seems like it is falling to pieces’ shortly before its disappearance and one pilot said that what he may have heard was ice falling from the wing. The craft took off at 7.15pm and disappeared off the radar at 8.23pm.
‘The ice accumulates in all sorts of aircraft surfaces – the propeller, the wing of the plane,’ said one pilot. ‘It completely alters the flying characteristic of the plane. You are flying in an ice cube. The only way to warm the aircraft up is descend.’
Since the flight was principally across water, the potential to seek out an airfield or bring the plane down in a field was removed.
Again, it's you posting more rubbish, I read Emiliano was "killed" and gave up on reading.
Seriously Sven?
What are you on about? He WAS killed. He didn't die of natural causes but by violent forces suffered in a plane crash, and that's being killed .
As far as Southern is concerned , I've personally come across loads of private aircraft registered to them and flown in them actually, so I think people are barking up a wrong tree there. They'll give the keeper to air crash investigators or police if requested, but I very much doubt that they're directly involved in operating it.
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:22 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:47 pm
wez1927 wrote:Something stinks about this plane
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:50 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:58 pm
marky1927 wrote:i think when you find the owners of this plane it will answer a lot of questions . why have any of the owners come out and expressed their sorrow and grief at what has happened in their plane after all two people have been killed, all they seem to do is try and hide their identities why, what have they got to hide ?
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:13 pm
marky1927 wrote:i think when you find the owners of this plane it will answer a lot of questions . why have any of the owners come out and expressed their sorrow and grief at what has happened in their plane after all two people have been killed, all they seem to do is try and hide their identities why, what have they got to hide ?
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:54 pm
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:03 pm
Le Monde wrote:Ça ne fait rien qui possède l'avion, il ne fait aucune différence. Les propriétaires d'avion peuvent louer des avions à qu'ils souhaitent.
La glace sera le facteur de l'accident et du fait le pilote ne devrait pas avoir volé la nuit en premier lieu.
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:52 pm
Dazzy wrote:Interesting. At least there are some ideas as to who may own the plane (albeit held back from being printed). Hopefully the investigation will identify the owners who need to be held to account
Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:00 am