Cardiff City Forum



A forum for all things Cardiff City

' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:16 pm

Unbelievable :evil:

British soldier charged :evil:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:17 pm

OPINIONS PLEASE?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:19 pm

Ridiculous. End of discussion.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:30 pm

I was in Derry last November and visited the place where the civil rights protesters were murdered. Most just 17 year olds. Looking at the street maps where they fell it was obvious they were running from the area. Somebody needs to answer to it because that day kick started the troubles to a completely different level. Everyone should visit there and see it for themselves. It's not a day for British people to be proud of thats for sure.
I was in Derry running for Wales by the way not paying homeage to those murdered that day.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:41 pm

The first casualties of War are the innocent and that will never change. Why don't they charge the RAF for burning down Dresden during WW2, not a military target. That's just one example. Another scape goat IMO. Shame on the government.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:52 pm

FOOTSOLDIER wrote:The first casualties of War are the innocent and that will never change. Why don't they charge the RAF for burning down Dresden during WW2, not a military target. That's just one example. Another scape goat IMO. Shame on the government.

Thing is they can link him to 4 of the murders. He knew what he was doing. One could be a mistake, 4 is taking the piss out his position as a soldier

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:02 pm

And yet under good Friday agreement murderers were set free.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:11 pm

NIBluebird wrote:And yet under good Friday agreement murderers were set free.

Yep and I personally think that was wrong too.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:15 pm

Pathetic but sadly typical of modern British politicians and authorities pandering to the ridiculous! :( :banghead:

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:25 pm

AHERNE wrote:
FOOTSOLDIER wrote:The first casualties of War are the innocent and that will never change. Why don't they charge the RAF for burning down Dresden during WW2, not a military target. That's just one example. Another scape goat IMO. Shame on the government.

Thing is they can link him to 4 of the murders. He knew what he was doing. One could be a mistake, 4 is taking the piss out his position as a soldier


Perhaps years of patrolling the steets under threat of been blownup or shot thinking that day could be your last had an effect on his reaction. Unless you've been in that position which 99% of politician's or people have not, they have no right to judge IMO.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:38 pm

FOOTSOLDIER wrote:
AHERNE wrote:
FOOTSOLDIER wrote:The first casualties of War are the innocent and that will never change. Why don't they charge the RAF for burning down Dresden during WW2, not a military target. That's just one example. Another scape goat IMO. Shame on the government.

Thing is they can link him to 4 of the murders. He knew what he was doing. One could be a mistake, 4 is taking the piss out his position as a soldier


Perhaps years of patrolling the steets under threat of been blownup or shot thinking that day could be your last had an effect on his reaction. Unless you've been in that position which 99% of politician's or people have not, they have no right to judge IMO.


That old chestnut. 800 years we brits terrorised the Irish people mind. If anyone should be frigtened it should be them.
I wonder how you would feel if it was your 17 year old son murdered that day. Wanting justice I bet.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:44 pm

Perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye.

I heard rumours this morning of a near mutinous incident at the barracks of a particular Regiment. I must say that neither I nor anyone else has been able to confirm that, but if it happened it'll get out in time.

I often surprise people including my family by not bearing any grudge toward combatants in that conflict. ( I shall not call them terrorists, because that helps no one). I take the view that it was a war and the fact is that all parties do bad things in wars.

That war is over, and I can respect former enemies as men who did what they felt to be their duty. Our soldiers are entitled to the same attitude though. I can assure you that all sides did worse things than Bloody Sunday, however unfortunate that incident was. Every act of war is regrettable with hindsight, as are the casualties of war, whether combatants or innocent victims.

We no longer pursue those who acted against us in that war, which I can accept , but we can't have it both ways and unless a halt is called to this odious prosecution, perhaps we must reconsider the amnesty on prosecution in the Peace Agreements.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:07 pm

AHERNE wrote:
FOOTSOLDIER wrote:
AHERNE wrote:
FOOTSOLDIER wrote:The first casualties of War are the innocent and that will never change. Why don't they charge the RAF for burning down Dresden during WW2, not a military target. That's just one example. Another scape goat IMO. Shame on the government.

Thing is they can link him to 4 of the murders. He knew what he was doing. One could be a mistake, 4 is taking the piss out his position as a soldier


Perhaps years of patrolling the steets under threat of been blownup or shot thinking that day could be your last had an effect on his reaction. Unless you've been in that position which 99% of politician's or people have not, they have no right to judge IMO.


That old chestnut. 800 years we brits terrorised the Irish people mind. If anyone should be frigtened it should be them.
I wonder how you would feel if it was your 17 year old son murdered that day. Wanting justice I bet.


If you live by the sword you die by the sword. Throw petrol bombs and rocks at people then expect a reaction.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:39 pm

AHERNE wrote:
FOOTSOLDIER wrote:
AHERNE wrote:
FOOTSOLDIER wrote:The first casualties of War are the innocent and that will never change. Why don't they charge the RAF for burning down Dresden during WW2, not a military target. That's just one example. Another scape goat IMO. Shame on the government.

Thing is they can link him to 4 of the murders. He knew what he was doing. One could be a mistake, 4 is taking the piss out his position as a soldier


Perhaps years of patrolling the steets under threat of been blownup or shot thinking that day could be your last had an effect on his reaction. Unless you've been in that position which 99% of politician's or people have not, they have no right to judge IMO.


That old chestnut. 800 years we brits terrorised the Irish people mind. If anyone should be frigtened it should be them.
I wonder how you would feel if it was your 17 year old son murdered that day. Wanting justice I bet.


I'd blame the IRA who rang down shots on the paratroopers.

It's all so easy to sit and pass judgement but unless your in that situation you can never judge some young soldiers actions.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:14 pm

Yer great go after our soldiers but lets give murdering IRA cowards immunity from prosecution! £200m to come to conclusion one soldier killed 4 people even though its stated upto 3 other soldiers were also responsible for bullets that killed them? But funny enough no IRA participation you believe that you'd believe in pink pigs flying :roll:

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:55 pm

AHERNE wrote:
NIBluebird wrote:And yet under good Friday agreement murderers were set free.

Yep and I personally think that was wrong too.



it is wrong. cant have it both ways.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:10 am

Peter Taylor the BBC journalist who is respected by all sides of the divide was there, it was his first exposure to Irish politics.The reality is I am afraid the Paras were sent in to hit hard, the previous year they had killed 10 people on the Ballymurphy Estate in Belfast.This is now an ongoing inquiry. The RUC questioned the logic of sending in the Paras on that day suggesting another regiment,The orders came from above, good old fashioned duplicity from our wonderful leaders of the time.Now one lonely Para faces the music what about his superiors? Equally what about the people shot in the back, what if that was your son, father, brother? All I do know that was the day when all out war was declared the rest is history I suppose.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:39 am

I think that the rich politicians who never had to fight on the frontlines yet send our young boys to war, should be held responsible for war crimes not the kids themselves who are often stressed, scared or under immense pressure.

Also, if he gets prosecuted the so should those giving the orders and that includes it IRA. Should the pilot who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima get prosecuted for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children?

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:21 am

This is the Parachute regiment - an elite regiment, really well trained, equal to the Marines in that respect, only slightly behind the Commandos.

Well trained British soldiers do not kill unarmed civilians of any description without orders.

It was and is a day of shame. As one poster says, you can't have it both ways. Killing unarmed civilians is not the individual act of well-trained elite soldiers, especially British ones, unless encouraged or ordered or badly led.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:49 am

Jimmy Scoular wrote:Peter Taylor the BBC journalist who is respected by all sides of the divide was there, it was his first exposure to Irish politics.The reality is I am afraid the Paras were sent in to hit hard, the previous year they had killed 10 people on the Ballymurphy Estate in Belfast.This is now an ongoing inquiry. The RUC questioned the logic of sending in the Paras on that day suggesting another regiment,The orders came from above, good old fashioned duplicity from our wonderful leaders of the time.Now one lonely Para faces the music what about his superiors? Equally what about the people shot in the back, what if that was your son, father, brother? All I do know that was the day when all out war was declared the rest is history I suppose.


This is where I stand on this.

the buck stops at the top as the saying goes.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:33 am

Bakedalasker wrote:
Jimmy Scoular wrote:Peter Taylor the BBC journalist who is respected by all sides of the divide was there, it was his first exposure to Irish politics.The reality is I am afraid the Paras were sent in to hit hard, the previous year they had killed 10 people on the Ballymurphy Estate in Belfast.This is now an ongoing inquiry. The RUC questioned the logic of sending in the Paras on that day suggesting another regiment,The orders came from above, good old fashioned duplicity from our wonderful leaders of the time.Now one lonely Para faces the music what about his superiors? Equally what about the people shot in the back, what if that was your son, father, brother? All I do know that was the day when all out war was declared the rest is history I suppose.


This is where I stand on this.

the buck stops at the top as the saying goes.


Agreed, I don't agree with what they did. But they were following orders which is what they're trained to do are they not?

The ones giving the orders should be the ones being trialed

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:48 pm

AHERNE wrote:
NIBluebird wrote:And yet under good Friday agreement murderers were set free.

Yep and I personally think that was wrong too.


I don't like the concept of amnesty for terrorist murders but I would reluctantly hold my nose and accept it in the concept of Northern Ireland as it did bring an end to the troubles and has undoubtedly save many lives.

However, what is good for one side has to be good for the other. Even if this soldier was responsible for the pointblank killing of 4 civilians then he has to be given a pardon.

In the grand scheme of things 4 killings is a very low number compared to Republican and Loyalist terrorists who killed ten times that amount. This decision is completely wrong and is another sign of our hopeless weak out of touch Government.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:31 pm

It is strange.

Guy I know was killed in Deal barracks. His folks must look at this, and wonder why. There will be no justice for them.

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:59 pm

He killed innocent civilians who were nothing to do with the fight. Why exactly shouldn't he be prosecuted?

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:05 pm

WelshBluebird wrote:He killed innocent civilians who were nothing to do with the fight. Why exactly shouldn't he be prosecuted?



Yes and same should apply to ira and other terrorists but they got immunity from prosecution even when it was proved they murdered people/ soldiers? As said before it cost £200m and all the person found was one poor squaddie to prosecute doesn't sound very reliable considering how many died that day...

Re: ' NEARLY 50 YEARS LATER & CHARGED '

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:52 am

WelshBluebird wrote:He killed innocent civilians who were nothing to do with the fight. Why exactly shouldn't he be prosecuted?


There are several good explanations above why he shouldn't face prosecution. Also you make a number assumptions in your summary. We don't know if those killed were innocent civilians or had nothing to do with the fight.