Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:51 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an estimate will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute.
You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union.
The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.
Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?
That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response
Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:41 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Its almost certain it will be a hung parliament then what? Only option then is for a new referendum and leave win then what? Already rejected a deal cannot go back say we will accept previous deal! Idiot mps dont have a fcking clue,
I am taking anecdotal view here but at a guess I would think the Tories would happy with the same result as 2017. The difference this time would be they have rid themselves of 21 remain Tory MP's. Along with a new confidence and supply agreement with the DUP they would just have the numbers to get a no deal (or any negotiated deal with the EU) through Parliament.
Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:31 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an estimate will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute.
You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union.
The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.
Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?
That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response
Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 pm
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 am
spikeferndale wrote:Jock,
Where is the evidence that Commonwealth countries economies have grown at 3 times the rate of the Euro Zone?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:48 am
Jock wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an estimate will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute.
You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union.
The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.
Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?
That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response
Independence must be working for them!
Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
You do know Commonwealth Countries economies have grown three times as fast as the Eurozone?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:50 am
Jock wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
Only half the story there Tony.Could you tell me the net profit the UK get from the EU,an estimate will do.I'll give you a clue,it a hell of a lot more than we contribute.
You still haven't explained what you mean by 'profit?' If you mean 'trade' then trade will continue even if there is a 'no deal'. We don't pay contributions 'to trade' we pay contributions to be members of the EU with it's single market and customs union.
The report you published made reference to the cash contribution the UK makes to the EU. We are one of only 3 countries out of the 27 EU members who make a 'net' contribution i.e. we pay more in than we take out.
Also if you have the figures on this mythical 'profit' you keep referring to then please share it with us and explain its significance rather than keep asking me?
That said I suspect any reply will look something like a project fear response
Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
You do know Commonwealth Countries economies have grown three times as fast as the Eurozone?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:00 am
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:41 am
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:18 am
brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:26 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:36 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:47 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:16 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:47 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:52 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:08 pm
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:10 pm
Jock wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?
Do you believe the EU is a democratic organisation?
Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:14 pm
Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:51 pm
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:23 pm
brickyblue wrote:The fact is we voted to leave the EU if after over 3 years we cant agree we just got to get on with it and go .
The pound has suffered and britain is stifled.
Why are these Mps trying to continuously delaying it it's got to stop somewhere .
Weather borris voted not to except the previous deals who cares.im not a Tory never have been but hes said leave on the 31 st with or without a deal either way it's got to happend to eventually stabilise the country again.
Most of the mps are trying to destabilise things because they want to remain in the EU.
We've voted so get on with it bunch of idiots arguing over things that have been voted for by the very people they are supposed to serve.Arseholes.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:51 pm
Steve Zodiak wrote:Hope the new Speaker is a bit more impartial than the present one. Good riddance to him I say.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:56 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:58 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.
Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:34 am
ElyBoy1984 wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:take people from a low wage economy and put them in a higher wage economy and wages stall or drop. There is pressure on housing in the UK, adding immigrants makes that worse.Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.
Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?
Lol Walk about town.
Freedom of movement is about exploitation of workers. I'm not a socialist but i can't understand why some Labour(not all) people go along with it.
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:58 am
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.
Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?
Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:23 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:
The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:01 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.
The EU manufactured the Irish backstop by insisting on a Withdrawal deal before a free trade deal. It was perfectly possible to negotiate a free trade before or along side a withdrawal agreement. Your comparison with USA is non-applicable. We can't sign a deal with USA until we leave the EU but we can certainly negotiate a deal in lieu of leaving.
What the EU have done is insisted on a Withdrawal agreement first and then want to talk about a free trade agreement. This causes a hiatus which has been filled by the backstop which is basically a gun to our head whilst we negotiate with EU. That is totally wrong and anyone who argues it's fairness has to be brainwashed.
Further you don't seem to understand what the backstop is? It is a fall back position where the UK is held within the Customs Union and Single Market against its will if we (the UK) do-not accept any old crap trade deal the EU offers. The UK is not erecting a hard boarder which has been ruled out a hundred times. Whatever deal is struck there will be freedom of movement on the Island of Ireland due to agreements made when Ireland gained it's independence in 1922 and the Good Friday agreement in 1998. If the Good Friday Agreement collapses then the fault will lay completely with the EU as they will be the ones erecting a hard boarder.
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 pm
Tony Blue Williams wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.
Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?
The UK population is increasing by 300,000 per year (net). A City the size of Cardiff needs to be built every year to keep up with the housing needs of the UK and that is simply not happening. Walk through Cardiff, Newport or Swansea City Centres and see the dozens of homeless people who can't find accommodation as a result. If you really believe that uncontrolled immigration and homelessness have no link then that is up to you but frankly it is delusional.