Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:50 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:Sorry to disappoint Tony but project fear is now is now redundant as its quickly becoming project reality,however,this is how I see it.
We make a lot of money net out of the EU regardless of contributions,thats a fact and not open to question.I voted remain but do accept the result,however,I don't think many want to leave without a deal.For Rees-Mogg and his cronies the question is not whats best for this country but a slavish adherence to very old Tory doctrine.They don't even command the majority of conservatives never mind a working parliamentary party.I understand your point of view as I know from your past postings that immigration is a cornerstone of your argument but that won't change even after brexit so you can't blame or chastise those who do not want the cliff edge version.
I would like to see an end to freedom of movement. FoM causes many social problems including homelessness and wage restraint which any good socialist should be against.
Any evidence whatsoever for the homeless point?
The UK population is increasing by 300,000 per year (net). A City the size of Cardiff needs to be built every year to keep up with the housing needs of the UK and that is simply not happening. Walk through Cardiff, Newport or Swansea City Centres and see the dozens of homeless people who can't find accommodation as a result. If you really believe that uncontrolled immigration and homelessness have no link then that is up to you but frankly it is delusional.
There's been homelessness for thousands of years before the EU came into existence, I'm asking for evidence of a causal link between freedom of movement and homelessness.
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:05 pm
Sneggyblubird wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
The choice is between the backstop or a hard border nothing else is on the table.Boris knows if he leaves with no deal there will be a hard border and the collapse of the Good Friday agreement would follow.Just because Boris says they won't operate a border on our side doesn't mean we can interfere with another countries (or group of countries) sovereign right to operate a border at the end of their land.I find it unbelievable that someone who voted leave so we could then operate our sovereign right to stop all these immigrants doesn't seem to acknowledge another countries right to do the same.I'll say it again:The people that voted against the May deal had their reasons and I respect that as I respect your opinion but it cuts both ways and this brainwashed fool doesn't want a no-deal brexit and supports like minded people.Oh and how can you negotiate a trade deal with the EU if your still in the EU.Even the Americans won't enter negotiations with us until we leave.You are putting the Cart before the horse Tony as are many others.
The EU manufactured the Irish backstop by insisting on a Withdrawal deal before a free trade deal. It was perfectly possible to negotiate a free trade before or along side a withdrawal agreement. Your comparison with USA is non-applicable. We can't sign a deal with USA until we leave the EU but we can certainly negotiate a deal in lieu of leaving.
What the EU have done is insisted on a Withdrawal agreement first and then want to talk about a free trade agreement. This causes a hiatus which has been filled by the backstop which is basically a gun to our head whilst we negotiate with EU. That is totally wrong and anyone who argues it's fairness has to be brainwashed.
Further you don't seem to understand what the backstop is? It is a fall back position where the UK is held within the Customs Union and Single Market against its will if we (the UK) do-not accept any old crap trade deal the EU offers. The UK is not erecting a hard boarder which has been ruled out a hundred times. Whatever deal is struck there will be freedom of movement on the Island of Ireland due to agreements made when Ireland gained it's independence in 1922 and the Good Friday agreement in 1998. If the Good Friday Agreement collapses then the fault will lay completely with the EU as they will be the ones erecting a hard boarder.
I'm finding it difficult to find the right words to reply to your last sentence.The Good Friday Agreement brokered by the Americans is solely our responsibility and no one else's.Dominic Rabb uttered this shit as a negotiating tool but very quickly backtracked when reminded of the implications of that statement.Blaming some one else for your responsibility is a cowards way out.Like it or not free movement in Ireland has been the cornerstone of the peace we have all enjoyed for over twenty years now.I get it, you want a clean brake but in doing so you must show respect to all sides of the argument and not just toss away all that you deem as non-important in your little corner of the world.
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:50 pm
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:43 pm
epping blue wrote:I see Corbyn's going with a " credible leave option " for the next election. 90% of his party support nothing but remain and he's nothing but a con man. Labour's a fully remain party so why cant they be honest with the electorate ?
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:53 pm
epping blue wrote:I see Corbyn's going with a " credible leave option " for the next election. 90% of his party support nothing but remain and he's nothing but a con man. Labour's a fully remain party so why cant they be honest with the electorate ?
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:10 pm
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:20 pm
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:28 pm
Stevejonesfrom62 wrote:Nowhere near as nauseating as that prick in number 10 even his own rats have left his sinking dinghy lol
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:15 pm
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:19 pm
Stevejonesfrom62 wrote:The eu hasnt beebn disatrous for wales has it
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:22 pm
pembroke allan wrote:Stevejonesfrom62 wrote:The eu hasnt beebn disatrous for wales has it
Maybe not but its led to disastrous wasting of money on vanity enterprises that closed year or so after money spent on it?
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:29 pm
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:01 pm
Jock wrote:pembroke allan wrote:Stevejonesfrom62 wrote:The eu hasnt beebn disatrous for wales has it
Maybe not but its led to disastrous wasting of money on vanity enterprises that closed year or so after money spent on it?
Almost half a century of E.U. membership and we’re still a poor region .
Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:06 pm
stickywicket wrote:New film coming out "How green is your valleys".
The Tories done a good job of returning the Welsh valleys to grass and trees,and to cap it all the Welsh still vote for them .
Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:09 am
Stevejonesfrom62 wrote:The eu hasnt beebn disatrous for wales has it
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 am
stickywicket wrote:New film coming out "How green is your valleys".
The Tories done a good job of returning the Welsh valleys to grass and trees,and to cap it all the Welsh still vote for them .
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:59 am
Stan_B wrote:Stevejonesfrom62 wrote:The eu hasnt beebn disatrous for wales has it
The EU is the equivalent of someone dropping a fiver on the floor, you pick it up while that person lifts your wallet.
Just Google how many businesses have left this country for Eastern Europe with EU grants. The EU has been shafting us like this for many years only people like you cant see it - you only see the grants they give us which are peanuts!
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:03 am
epping blue wrote:worcester_ccfc wrote:There will be an Election before the end of the month. Find it hard to believe that tonight stops that.
They've got the wind in their sails now. Wouldn't be surprised if they try and push through a 2nd referendum before they go back to the country.
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:28 am
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:brickyblue wrote:The county voted leave and for 3 years they been trying to make a deal they cant it's all failed.it doesnt matter what anyone in government wants the vote was to leave .
I admire Johnson's determination to follow through what the voters wanted every thing else is bullshit.
We been a joke for to long get it done deal or not and are country can go forward again after all it's supposed to be a democracy in the country lots in government seem to want to make new rules we voted out get on with it
Boris voted against a deal 3 times mate,hows that following through what the voters wanted?
Theresa May's deal was deliberately made so bad that any self respecting BREXIT voter would have rejected it. There was no need of an Irish backstop because a trade deal could have been negotiated prior to the Withdrawal deal. But the EU insisted on doing things the other way around in order to manufacture the Irish boarder problem.
The idea of the backstop is to keep the UK in the EU by the backdoor and by denying us self determination to leave and instead being reliant on the permission of the EU. Again this is a classic example of the EU bullying and undemocratic way of working. Anyone who sides with the EU is nothing short of a brainwashed fool.
You are aware that we were the ones who proposed the backstop...
Were you too scared that you hadn't got any leavers buzzwords in that you had to throw in the bullying and undemocratic bit at the end? If not could you explain how us proposing something shows that they are undemocratic and bullies?
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:32 am
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Jock wrote:Do you believe the EU is a democratic organisation?
Surely the question should be- Do you believe that the EU is undemocratic because the UK proposed something. And my answer to that question is of course not.
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:58 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:
I'm finding it difficult to find the right words to reply to your last sentence.The Good Friday Agreement brokered by the Americans is solely our responsibility and no one else's.Dominic Rabb uttered this shit as a negotiating tool but very quickly backtracked when reminded of the implications of that statement.Blaming some one else for your responsibility is a cowards way out.Like it or not free movement in Ireland has been the cornerstone of the peace we have all enjoyed for over twenty years now.I get it, you want a clean brake but in doing so you must show respect to all sides of the argument and not just toss away all that you deem as non-important in your little corner of the world.
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:22 am
CCFCJosh75 wrote:There's been homelessness for thousands of years before the EU came into existence, I'm asking for evidence of a causal link between freedom of movement and homelessness.
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:26 am
Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
I'm finding it difficult to find the right words to reply to your last sentence.The Good Friday Agreement brokered by the Americans is solely our responsibility and no one else's.Dominic Rabb uttered this shit as a negotiating tool but very quickly backtracked when reminded of the implications of that statement.Blaming some one else for your responsibility is a cowards way out.Like it or not free movement in Ireland has been the cornerstone of the peace we have all enjoyed for over twenty years now.I get it, you want a clean brake but in doing so you must show respect to all sides of the argument and not just toss away all that you deem as non-important in your little corner of the world.
I have you considered that the real reason you are finding it difficult to find words to reply is that you have repeatedly lost the argument?
Your latest tact is to call me a coward for blaming the EU for the failure of FoM in Ireland? Firstly FoM hasn't failed I was talking about a future scenario.
Also FoM has existed in Ireland since 1922 not 1998 and the UK has made it clear we will not introduce boarder checks. Therefore the only way a hard boarder will exist is if Ireland at the behest of the EU introduce boarder checks. If that happens and FoM ends then obviously that will be the fault of Ireland/EU as they will be responsible for their actions.
Your last sentence really shows how desperate your argument is becoming. As stated the UK has made it clear they will not introduce boarder checks (I fully support that) so how is it that the UK (and I) are not showing 'respect' to Ireland and the EU?
Finally if I want a clean break then why can't you respect my self determination to make that choice rather than making irrational outbursts about me personally?
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:15 am
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:16 am
I do respect that your opinion and anyone who has one diferent to mine but when writting on a forum its silly to get upset by someone with a different view.Tony Blue Williams wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:
I'm finding it difficult to find the right words to reply to your last sentence.The Good Friday Agreement brokered by the Americans is solely our responsibility and no one else's.Dominic Rabb uttered this shit as a negotiating tool but very quickly backtracked when reminded of the implications of that statement.Blaming some one else for your responsibility is a cowards way out.Like it or not free movement in Ireland has been the cornerstone of the peace we have all enjoyed for over twenty years now.I get it, you want a clean brake but in doing so you must show respect to all sides of the argument and not just toss away all that you deem as non-important in your little corner of the world.
I have you considered that the real reason you are finding it difficult to find words to reply is that you have repeatedly lost the argument?No not by a long shot.AS per though your putting your narrow spin on a far bigger problem and you are actually mirroring the problem insomuch as despite what the EU has said and latterly the Irish PM to Boris that if you don't want a hard border or a backstop then you must come up with a workable alternative.Whether you like it or not the EU position on this is legal and responsible as far as their interests are concerned.British Politicians and the EU would love to here from you if you have any workable Ideas.
Your latest tact is to call me a coward for blaming the EU for the failure of FoM in Ireland? Firstly FoM hasn't failed I was talking about a future scenario.Two things here: 1. Pot kettle black-reread some of your earlier posts2:Its wasn't aimed at you personally but perhaps I should have put it in quotation marks
Also FoM has existed in Ireland since 1922 not 1998 and the UK has made it clear we will not introduce boarder checks. Therefore the only way a hard boarder will exist is if Ireland at the behest of the EU introduce boarder checks. If that happens and FoM ends then obviously that will be the fault of Ireland/EU as they will be responsible for their actions.
Your last sentence really shows how desperate your argument is becoming. As stated the UK has made it clear they will not introduce boarder checks (I fully support that) so how is it that the UK (and I) are not showing 'respect' to Ireland and the EU?
Thats very nice of you and the Government but it doesn't solve the problem by definition.
Finally if I want a clean break then why can't you respect my self determination to make that choice rather than making irrational outbursts about me personally?
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:04 am
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:05 am
ElyBoy1984 wrote:Rumours of a leadership challenge to Corbyn circulating. Tom Watson being touted.
Ohhhhhh Jeremy Corbyn, ohhhhh jeremy Corbyn .....
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:07 am
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:09 am
Bluebina wrote:Scottish courts (who cares, they should stick to their own business) have found the suspension of Parliament unlawful.
https://news.sky.com/story/pms-suspensi ... s-11806812
Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:19 am
Bluebina wrote:Scottish courts (who cares, they should stick to their own business) have found the suspension of Parliament unlawful.
https://news.sky.com/story/pms-suspensi ... s-11806812