Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:05 pm
Jock wrote:Welshman in CA wrote:Jock wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
I'm sure the 'no politics in football' brigade will be up in arms next month when the players wear poppies and have a minutes silence. The only thing they'll actually be angry about is if someone doesn't (like James mcclean)
Communism/Fascism two cheeks of the same shite covered arse.
I don’t know why or if you wear a poppy but I don’t wear one for political reasons, in fact I don’t know what the politics of the poppy are.
Jock, are you saying you don't wear a poppy because it has political reasons for being or that you do wear a poppy because of what it means to you personally?
The latter mate. I wear it to support servicemen’s charities and spare a thought for what our forefathers went through to defeat real Fascists.
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:06 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:21 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:29 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:davejohns74 wrote:I will walk out and never return if my fellow city fan were to boo black players standing up for their rights to live equally.
Two questions...
Firstly, name just one right in this country that a black person doesn't have equality with a white person has. I mean legally and institutionally here not anecdotal.
Secondly, why was the Black Lives Matter movement, a movement that was pushed by a disgustingly opportunist, openly Marxist and hugely hypocritical organisation allowed to usurp the Kick It Out organisation?
Kick it Out, has a 25 year history of tackling racism and hate through football on the international stage.
Kick it Out achieves a huge amount not by tearing down statues, burning and looting but by building grass roots movements that unite communities rather than divide and most importantly are NON POLITICAL.
If we want to continue to re enforce a message of equality, here at home and use the influence of our football teams to spread that message across the world (a message I'm sure 99% of the us all agree with) then why use an overtly political movement to do that when there is already a well established, respected non-political equivalent that can do the same job?
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:38 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Jock wrote:Welshman in CA wrote:Jock wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
I'm sure the 'no politics in football' brigade will be up in arms next month when the players wear poppies and have a minutes silence. The only thing they'll actually be angry about is if someone doesn't (like James mcclean)
Communism/Fascism two cheeks of the same shite covered arse.
I don’t know why or if you wear a poppy but I don’t wear one for political reasons, in fact I don’t know what the politics of the poppy are.
Jock, are you saying you don't wear a poppy because it has political reasons for being or that you do wear a poppy because of what it means to you personally?
The latter mate. I wear it to support servicemen’s charities and spare a thought for what our forefathers went through to defeat real Fascists.
It looks like you've answered the political bit right there.
Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:19 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:31 pm
spikeferndale wrote:Some of you still don't get it?
If Racism wasn't so rife in our society, organisations such as BLM wouldn't exist.
Open your eyes, " We are a Racist society" and it needs to change.
To say that all lives matter, is stating the obvious and is just trying to deny that we have a real problem, that needs addressing.
Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:35 pm
thomasblue wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:davejohns74 wrote:I will walk out and never return if my fellow city fan were to boo black players standing up for their rights to live equally.
Two questions...
Firstly, name just one right in this country that a black person doesn't have equality with a white person has. I mean legally and institutionally here not anecdotal.
Secondly, why was the Black Lives Matter movement, a movement that was pushed by a disgustingly opportunist, openly Marxist and hugely hypocritical organisation allowed to usurp the Kick It Out organisation?
Kick it Out, has a 25 year history of tackling racism and hate through football on the international stage.
Kick it Out achieves a huge amount not by tearing down statues, burning and looting but by building grass roots movements that unite communities rather than divide and most importantly are NON POLITICAL.
If we want to continue to re enforce a message of equality, here at home and use the influence of our football teams to spread that message across the world (a message I'm sure 99% of the us all agree with) then why use an overtly political movement to do that when there is already a well established, respected non-political equivalent that can do the same job?
Probably the best post I've seen on this forum for a long time
Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:40 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:03 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:06 pm
skidemin wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Jock wrote:Welshman in CA wrote:Jock wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
I'm sure the 'no politics in football' brigade will be up in arms next month when the players wear poppies and have a minutes silence. The only thing they'll actually be angry about is if someone doesn't (like James mcclean)
Communism/Fascism two cheeks of the same shite covered arse.
I don’t know why or if you wear a poppy but I don’t wear one for political reasons, in fact I don’t know what the politics of the poppy are.
Jock, are you saying you don't wear a poppy because it has political reasons for being or that you do wear a poppy because of what it means to you personally?
The latter mate. I wear it to support servicemen’s charities and spare a thought for what our forefathers went through to defeat real Fascists.
It looks like you've answered the political bit right there.
the Germans were not fascists in WW1 and my grandfather actually fought the Bolsheviks during the Russian intervention. not that the second war was on fascism either, they just happened to be fascists..
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:28 pm
New Day Rising wrote:No , and would try and miss the event as I think its overkill, feel for the players who feel obligated to do it to avoid upsetting folk or being judged , I wonder if it will stop when fans return anyways , and its longevity is only down to empty stadiums. Life and freedoms is about free choices and one should not be judged by individual choices isn't that about black lives movement, free choices and freedoms not control mechanisms??
Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:49 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:06 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
Josh how many times do we have to do this?
There is no Communism that hasn't evolved out of Marxism and Facism and Marxism both share ideological roots.
Not only did we do this conversation here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=215640&start=120
But even in that thread I referred you to an early thread here
https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... lit=+nazis
And I've even gone to the effort of giving you a comprehensive list of texts to read and a link to a free PDF for each text for you to go and read the core texts that outline how these ideologies overlap and the opposing view here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=217583&p=2232681#p2232681
To quite Joe Biden "C'Mon Man..."
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:39 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:52 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
Josh how many times do we have to do this?
There is no Communism that hasn't evolved out of Marxism and Facism and Marxism both share ideological roots.
Not only did we do this conversation here:
https://cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... &start=120
But even in that thread I referred you to an early thread here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=209852&hilit=+nazis
And I've even gone to the effort of giving you a comprehensive list of texts to read and a link to a free PDF for each text for you to go and read the core texts that outline how these ideologies overlap and the opposing view here
https://cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 1#p2232681
To quite Joe Biden "C'Mon Man..."
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:52 pm
keanoswinklepickers wrote:This is a football forum!
Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:57 pm
keanoswinklepickers wrote:This is a football forum!
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:08 pm
CCFCJosh75 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
Josh how many times do we have to do this?
There is no Communism that hasn't evolved out of Marxism and Facism and Marxism both share ideological roots.
Not only did we do this conversation here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=215640&start=120
But even in that thread I referred you to an early thread here
https://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/view ... lit=+nazis
And I've even gone to the effort of giving you a comprehensive list of texts to read and a link to a free PDF for each text for you to go and read the core texts that outline how these ideologies overlap and the opposing view here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=217583&p=2232681#p2232681
To quite Joe Biden "C'Mon Man..."
If you evolve from something you are no longer that thing. Man evolved from apes but you wouldn't go around calling all monkeys humans would you?
They are similar but not similar enough to be used interchangeably.
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:20 pm
Robbiebluebird wrote:
Facism in Italy came from a socialist (don't know if that's Marxist socialism)
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:35 pm
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:46 pm
Bigmarkw wrote:Seems quiet a resounding majority are not in support of taking the knee. I believe this would be echoed by every club supporter in the league.
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:49 pm
Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:04 am
skidemin wrote:Bigmarkw wrote:Seems quiet a resounding majority are not in support of taking the knee. I believe this would be echoed by every club supporter in the league.
yes mate and i dont remember anyone booing kick it out, rainbow laces or anything else... which should tell those still buying into this kneeling thing that something isnt right about BLM..
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:38 am
robjohn wrote:skidemin wrote:Bigmarkw wrote:Seems quiet a resounding majority are not in support of taking the knee. I believe this would be echoed by every club supporter in the league.
yes mate and i dont remember anyone booing kick it out, rainbow laces or anything else... which should tell those still buying into this kneeling thing that something isnt right about BLM..
I Have mixed race children and mixed race grandchildren and family members from all communities,
They have no support in my family in fact the consensus is that this divides people which surely is its real purpose
as a time we need to be more together than ever.
constantly looking at peoples race and dividing people into groups is completely immoral as far as I am concerned.
Marxism is win at any cost even if it destroys the very peoples it pretends to defend.
Be good to your neighbours family and friends ignore these activists who have destruction as a policy.
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:40 am
ealing_ayatollah wrote:Robbiebluebird wrote:
Facism in Italy came from a socialist (don't know if that's Marxist socialism)
Your right and while you wouldn't call Facism a direct descendent of Marxism like you would communism they are massively intertwined.
In essence, Giovanni Gentile who was basically the author of Facsim (ghost wrote for Mussolini) was influenced by Marx (he actually wrote a paper in Italian that outlined the Philosophy of Marx in his 20s) but more importantly was heavily influences by Hegel who was a massive influence on both Marx and Hitler in their respective ideologies.
So yeah your pretty much spot on
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:48 am
ealing_ayatollah wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:CCFCJosh75 wrote:Very impressive from blm to be considered Marxist, communist, and fascist at the same time.
Josh how many times do we have to do this?
There is no Communism that hasn't evolved out of Marxism and Facism and Marxism both share ideological roots.
Not only did we do this conversation here:
https://cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... &start=120
But even in that thread I referred you to an early thread here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=209852&hilit=+nazis
And I've even gone to the effort of giving you a comprehensive list of texts to read and a link to a free PDF for each text for you to go and read the core texts that outline how these ideologies overlap and the opposing view here
https://cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopi ... 1#p2232681
To quite Joe Biden "C'Mon Man..."
If you evolve from something you are no longer that thing. Man evolved from apes but you wouldn't go around calling all monkeys humans would you?
They are similar but not similar enough to be used interchangeably.
Your right, the death toll of facism was appx 6M the death toll of communism is 100M plus. There is no communism of note that is not grounded in Marxism whether it be Maosism, Lenism, Titoism or any other variation.
Plenty of nuanced differences but always the same fundamental building blocks and same tragic output.
It is just some variants of the shared ideologies are more horrific than others by many orders of magnitude.
So how about we just agree to lump them into statist authoritarianism, agree that is bad, very, very bad and something that shouldn't be encouraged and then we can discuss the finer nuances and different reasons why all permutations of statist authoritarianism are bad in there own right and how they differ after that?
Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:34 am
ealing_ayatollah wrote:There is no communism of note that is not grounded in Marxism whether it be Maosism, Lenism, Titoism or any other variation.
Josh wrote:"You seem to forget that my opinion is that they Marxism and communism are different things and shouldn't be used interchangeably. You yourself are also saying they're different when you say one evolves from the other or one is grounded in the other.
josh wrote:So how about we just agree to lump them". Sorry but people on here get annoyed at me for 'wanting to group everything' so I'm afraid I can't do that as it'd upset them.
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:04 pm
ealing_ayatollah wrote:ealing_ayatollah wrote:There is no communism of note that is not grounded in Marxism whether it be Maosism, Lenism, Titoism or any other variation.Josh wrote:"You seem to forget that my opinion is that they Marxism and communism are different things and shouldn't be used interchangeably. You yourself are also saying they're different when you say one evolves from the other or one is grounded in the other.
I chose my words carefully. The handful of Marxists ideologies that have not led to Commuism are both a very small minority and also too diluted to truly be called true Marxism (like Christian Marxism for example)josh wrote:So how about we just agree to lump them". Sorry but people on here get annoyed at me for 'wanting to group everything' so I'm afraid I can't do that as it'd upset them.
Very good of you to take peoples feeling into consideration. However, I'm happy to lump all of the above together and face the wrath.
All murderous and genocidal statist authoritarian regimes are bad. Very, very, very bad.
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:39 pm