NOT GULITY RUGBY FANS " CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT"
Tue Nov 12, 2013 7:28 pm
" VERDICT "
The Rugby fans who attacked football fans were All Found Not Guilty, they had said it was self defence.
Jurors agreed that rugby club members Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas acted in self-defence to protect themselves and pals when dozens of rival thugs clashed in front of 10,000 shocked racing punters.
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
Newbury Racecourse stag party brawl men found not guilty
Thursday 21st Nov 2013
The men said there were acting in self defence after getting caught up in a brawl between football fans at the prestigious racecourse
Four members of a Welsh stag party who became embroiled in a mass brawl between rival football hooligans at a race meeting were cleared of affray today.
Jurors agreed that rugby club members Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas acted in self-defence to protect themselves and pals when dozens of rival thugs clashed in front of 10,000 shocked racing punters.
Hooligans from Swansea City and Cardiff City rained down punches on each other during a 15-minute "pre-arranged fight" Newbury racecourse, Berks, the jury heard.
The scenes, likened to 1980s football hooliganism, were captured on live cameras filming for Channel 4 racing and sent shockwaves through the sport.
Prosecutors claimed the four Welshmen were "aggressive, violent and out of control" during the fighting which left 20 people injured.
However, the defendants successfully claimed they had merely acted to defend themselves and their friends when the violence kicked off.
The men were on a stag party for pal Darren Wilcox - who was dressed as a jockey in orange - and were affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea.
Mr Wilcox's father, Wayne, was assaulted in the scuffle, as well as one of the defandants, Robert Jenkins, who was left in a state of semi-consciousness after being attacked.
During a nine-day trial at Reading Crown Court, the jury heard there were hooligan chants of "Soul Crew" from Cardiff and "Jack Army" from Swansea fans before the trouble escalated.
A Channel 4 racing TV camera and YouTube clips posted online by shocked spectators showed pockets of fights between 60 men breaking out at Newbury Racecourse, Berks., on July 14, last year.
Davies, 25, of Priors Way, Dunvant, David Jenkins, 32, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins, 32, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and 30-year-old Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, were cleared of affray by a jury of eight men and four women after two hours and 44 minutes of deliberations.
The men, who all wore suits and ties in the dock, smiled and breathed sighs of relief as the verdicts were delivered. Afterwards, they embraced each other and family members outside of the court.
Four other men charged with affray over the mass brawl had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing.
They included Nicholas Southgate, aged 25 years, of Glynrhosyn, Gorseinon, Swansea, and Adam Gregory, aged 26 years, of Ridgeway, Swansea, who were on the stag do and are also members of Gorseinon Rugby Club.
James Farrell, aged 45 years, of Frewer Avenue, Cardiff, and Steven Jones, aged 42 years, of Kildare Street, Manselton, Swansea, were not part of the stag do or linked to the rugby club.
Cardiff Blues winger and Wales International Leigh Halfpenny, 24, was also on the stag do. However, he was not present when the fighting started and was not involved.
The four men will be sentenced before Judge Zoe Smith at Reading Crown Court at a date yet to be fixed.
FINAL DAY/ JURY RETIRED ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT '
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
FINAL DAY/ JURY RETIRED ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT
Wednesday 20th November 2013
Newbury Racecourse stag party brawl: Jury retires to consider verdict
The court heard the fight at Newbury Racecourse lasted up to 15 minutes
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
The jury in the trial of four men charged with being involved in a fight between football fans during a stag outing at a racecourse has retired to consider its verdict.
The men, all members of a Welsh rugby club, were on a trip to Newbury races in July last year when up to 70 people clashed.
Fighting lasted for up to 15 minutes with many receiving serious injuries.
All four men deny affray and claim self-defence.
During the trial, the jury at Reading Crown Court viewed footage of the disorder captured on both YouTube by spectators, and on Channel 4's television coverage on 14 July 2012.
The court heard many of those involved in the fighting were supporters from Cardiff City and Swansea City in what one witness believed was an "organised, pre-arranged fight".
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
Throwing punches
The defendants Robert Jenkins, 32, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, Ryan Thomas, 30, Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, Joshua Davies, 25, of Priors Way, Dunvant, and David Jenkins, 32, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, were all on a stag party with members of Gorseinon Rugby Club.
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny was also in the 80-strong group from the rugby club, but not involved in any of the disturbance.
While three of the defendants admitted throwing punches, they told the court their actions were a response to feeling "under threat of immediate danger" and "in defence of themselves and those around them".
The jury also heard how one of the rugby club's buses was attacked with stones after the fighting died down, as they prepared to return home from the racecourse.
Summing up, Judge Zoe Smith told the jury of four women and eight men that they should treat all four defendants as men of good character, and that credit should be given to them for voluntarily handing themselves into police to give evidence.
She said: "You must ask yourselves whether the actions on that day of each defendant when seen to be using force, show them not acting in lawful self-defence."
Judge Smith asked the jury, where possible, to return majority verdicts on each of the defendants.
DAY 5 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT '
Stag party revellers 'had to fight for their lives' to defend themselves in Newbury brawl between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans
15th Nov 2013
“It was clearly coming from the Cardiff supporters.
Stag party revellers had to “fight for their lives” in self-defence as they became embroiled in a brawl between rival football club fans, a jury was told.
Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas got caught up in a violent disorder between Cardiff City and Swansea City supporters at a racecourse.
Chants of “Soul Crew” from Cardiff and “Jack Army” from Swansea fans had been heard before the trouble escalated.
A Channel 4 racing TV camera and Youtube clips posted online by shocked spectators showed pockets of fights breaking out in a 15-minute period at Newbury Racecourse, Berks., where 10,000 racegoers had attended on July 14, last year.
Witnesses described up to 20 people suffering injuries from cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Giving evidence Lewis Glynn, 25, who was part of the stag do with members of the Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea, said: “People were being attacked by twos or threes.
“If they were going down they were being stamped on the head. These men were crazed.
“I saw Wayne Wilcox – the father of the stag – being kicked in the head.
“It was clearly coming from the Cardiff supporters.
“I saw Paul Jenkins getting punched. I saw him fall to the floor. I could see someone with a stamping motion with hands in the air and stamping in his direction where he was. I could hear the crowd who were in shock.
“I dragged him out. He was completely limp. He was unconscious. I dragged him out as far as I could and I stood over him.
“I could see someone running at us. I stood over his head. Luckily he saw someone else and went to punch them.
“Normally I would think of first aid bit I just stood there shocked.
“I made sure his tongue didn’t go down his throat.”
He said stewards and a paramedic came over to help.
Mr Glynn, a technical coordinator and former lifeguard, told the hearing at Reading Crown Court that the Cardiff men later turned their attentions to his pal Davies.
“They were pointing at him and saying, ‘him in the f*****g jacket – f******g kill him’,” he said.
“I was trying to shield him.
“If you could be seen you could be attacked.
“He was being attacked and I want to protect him.
“We didn’t know if we were fighting for our lives.”
Warehouse manager Robert Paul Jenkins, known as PJ, had organised the trip to the racecourse as he was one of the best men.
“Everyone was in highs spirits and looking forward to it,” he told eight men and four women of the jury.
He told the hearing that several men came charging at him at about 4pm that day below a grandstand.
Wearing a smart suit and tie, he said: “I caught a glimpse of someone coming towards me swinging a massive punch. He was a man in a suit.
“I took a couple of steps back.
“I had seen Darren the groom get punched.
“There was a surge of people coming from behind me. I remember stepping over Darren at that point.
“This was so he wasn’t exposed. As we moved forward I threw a punch into a large group of people who had just surged on us to force them backwards.
“Seeing Darren getting punched to the ground at the time it was just at that moment of time to push them back.
“I saw Josh got punched. Adam (Gregory) had gone in to get Josh out and I had gone in to help them.
“I was surrounded by a group of males I did not know.
“I started waking in the direction of Wayne to try and get out.
“Then I got punched from the side across the face by Mr (James) Farrell.
“Three or four men surged forward and I threw a punch at the man who had punched me in self-defence.
“As he had punched me already I thought I was in danger of being punched by him again.
“I just remember more and more punches being rained in on me. I remember being on the ground my hands being knocked out in front of me and my head being smashed into the tarmac, which caused a nasty injury.
“I remember being on the ground trying to fight my way up and remember seeing Lewis’ face(standing over me).”
He suffered concussion as well as a large graze above his left eye and numerous cuts and bruises to his face, which required hospital treatment.
Davies, 25, of Priors Way, Dunvant, David Jenkins, 32, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins, 32, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and 30-year-old Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
The jury were told that four other men had pleaded guilty to affray over the brawl.
They included Nicholas Southgate, 25, of Glynrhosyn, Gorseinon, Swansea, and Adam Gregory, 26, of Ridgeway, Swansea, who were part of the rugby club on the stag do.
James Farrell, 45, of Frewer Avenue, Cardiff, and Steven Jones, 42, of Kildare Street, Manselton, Swansea, were not part of the stag do or linked to the rugby club.
' The trial, before Judge Zoe Smith, was adjourned until Monday. '
DAY 4 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT
" They said they wanted to 'f****** kill me and batter me'.
Men caught up in violent brawl between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans were acting in self defence, court hears
15th Nov 2013
The four - affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea - had been drinking at Newbury race course when rival Cardiff City and Swansea City hooligans clashed.
The trial before Judge Zoe Smith, which was expected to run into next week, continues.
Four men on a stag do who got caught up in a violent brawl between fans from intercity football clubs were acting in self-defence after their pals were assaulted, a judge and jury were told today.
Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas were celebrating a pal's imminent wedding in a party of 70 men, which included Wales international rugby player Leigh Halfpenny, when trouble flared at a racecourse.
The four - affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea - had been drinking below a grandstand when rival Cardiff City and Swansea City hooligans clashed.
The jury was shown footage from Channel 4's TV camera and Youtube clips posted online by spectators showing the pockets of fights which broke out in a 15-minute period at Newbury Race course, Berks., at which crowds of 10,000 people were present on July 14, last year.
Today, a hearing at Reading Crown Court was told that police used all the footage to compile pictures of eight men involved in fighting and released them to the Welsh media for the public to identify.
The four defendants came forward as a result and were interviewed by detectives at Newbury Police station.
Each gave a prepared statement to officers citing that the stag's father Wayne Wilcox, aged in his 60s, had been attacked, as well as the joint best man and co-accused Robert Jenkins.
Prosecutor Damian Van Duyvenbode read each statement aloud to the jury of eight men and four women today.
Davies' statement read: "I was at Newbury races. I saw a group of boys over by the grandstand causing trouble by throwing drinks and fighting.
"I wanted no part of it. I noticed Wayne Wilcox on the floor and our boys standing around him to protect him.
"I did throw punches reacting to threat at my friends.
"I was on the receiving end of a few punches."
The statement of Robert Paul Jenkins, known as PJ, was then read.
"I accept I was at Newbury Races on July 14, 2012," he said.
"I know nothing about any pre-arranged fight between Swansea City and Cardiff FC supporters.
"I was there on a stag party from Gorseinon rugby football club.
"I do not support Swansea or Cardiff football clubs.
"During the afternoon I saw a fight break out. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was assaulted. I may have thrown punches in self-defence as persons continued to assault me. I am an entirely innocent party.
"I was kicked a number of times on the floor. I know friends of mine helped me and prevented me being further assaulted."
Thomas' statement read: "I accept I as at Newbury races on the day in question.
"I went there as part of a pre-arranged stag night with friends from Gorseinon rugby football club.
"I have no knowledge or affiliation with Swansea or Cardiff FC.
"During the afternoon a fight broke out. I could see members of party effectively being assaulted.
"I witnessed by neighbour being knocked out and my friend being kicked on the floor.
"It was clear to me that security staff couldn't really get involved due to the nature of the incident.
"I therefore made a judgement call to intervene only to act to defend people who I knew could have been seriously injured and were in immediate danger.
"I acted at all relevant times in defence of others and at no point the aggressor."
A videograb from YouTube showing the brawl at Newbury racecourse
David Jenkins - no relation to Robert - said in his statement: "I accept I was at Newbury races. There was an incident.
"I turned and saw my friend Paul (Robert) Jenkins on the floor.
"He was being kicked. I ran over and pushed a group of males back.
"I stood over Paul as he appeared unconscious. I told the boys to 'f**k off' as Paul had had enough.
"I think I swung one punch only as I thought I was going to be assaulted.
"The male said I was 'having it'. I acted in defence of myself and Paul."
The Crown say the men were "aggressive, violent and out of control."
The fighting was compared with violent scenes from the 1970s or 80s when football was gripped by large scale public disorder.
Witnesses described up to 20 people who had suffered injuries from those with cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Bloodied and battered Nils Arneson, aged 45 years - a "well-documented" Cardiff City hooligan - was captured on screen in the crowds during the disorder.
He has a conviction for affray from 2000, and a violent disorder conviction from 2004 where he was handed a 10-year football banning order, a hearing was told.
Davies, who celebrated his 25th birthday today, of Priors Way, Dunvant, David Jenkins, aged 32 years, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins, aged 32 years, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and Thomas, who turned 30 years yesterday/on Wednesday, of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
The jury was told today that four other men had pleaded guilty to affray over the brawl.
They included Nicholas Southgate, aged 25 years, of Glynrhosyn, Gorseinon, Swansea, and Adam Gregory, aged 26 years, of Ridgeway, Swansea, who were part of the rugby club on the stag do.
And James Farrell, aged 45 years, of Frewer Avenue, Cardiff, and Steven Jones, aged 42 years, of Kildare Street, Manselton, Swansea, who were not part of the stag do or linked to the rugby club.
Jones told police that football thug Arneson had arranged a pre-arranged fight at Newbury through Facebook. However, despite investigations officers could find no evidence of this.
Giving evidence from the witness box Davies said: "There were chants that I know are Swansea City football chants of Jack B*******, Jack Army, that kind of thing.
"I could hear 'Soul Crew' being chanted. It was coming from a group of men facing them.
"They were in smart suits. A few members of our party looked distressed. There was a boy from our party on crutches.
"There was a mass brawl of men in suits punching and kicking a handful of my friends.
"There were three or four people ganging up on one individual on their own.
"My friends were being punched and kicked. I just wanted to help them get away from being ambushed.
"There were senior members and a lot of boys from our group getting attacked.
"I myself was being punched. One man in a shirt was attacking me. His friend came in following him and started punching me.
"I did not antagonise them and haven't seen them before. I was covering my head and a couple of my friends came in and pulled me away. Paul came and he got pulled in to the floor."
Davies, an engineer who worked for Tallis, an MOD contractor firm which fits communication systems in military vehicles, added: "I was being attacked and threw my arms up to release myself to try to get away from these men who were grabbing me.
"They said they wanted to 'f****** kill me and batter me'.
"Paul was being attacked by four or five people on his own - punches, kicks landing on the head, waist, it was a lot."
The brown-haired defendant added: "I was just set upon and I was defending myself.
"This guy was shouting at me 'I'm going to f****** kill you.
"I was shocked. I was so frightened. I was being followed around, so I shouted 'just leave us alone'."
He went on: "My friends had been set upon and I went to intervene to stop them being hurt or attacked.
"If I had turned away they would have followed us and attacked me from behind.
"My friends were being attacked. I couldn't just leave them."
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny, who was part of the stag do, was not present when the violence kicked off.
The trial before Judge Zoe Smith, which was expected to run into next week, continues.
DAY 3 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT '
Court told how rivalry between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans sparked mass brawl at racecourse
Thursday 13th Nov 2013
Four men on trial at Reading Crown Court over 'violent and aggressive' fight at Newbury Racecourse in Berkshire
Inter-city rivalry between Cardiff and Swansea ended in a mass brawl at a racecourse 150 miles away, a jury has heard.
Football fans from Cardiff and Swansea exchanged blows in a "violent and aggressive" punch-up which was caught on camera by Channel 4 racing.
By coincidence a stag party from South Wales were also at the racecourse in Newbury, Berkshire, and became embroiled in the violence.
Details of the mass brawl, which involved up to 60 men during a race meeting in Newbury, were revealed to the jury where four fans were on trial.
The court was told that according to one witness, the incident was a pre-arranged fight between fierce South Wales rivals Swansea and Cardiff. which had previously been "rained off."
Joshua Davies, 24, David Jenkins, 32, Robert Jenkins, 32, and Ryan Thomas, 29, were captured on a Channel 4's TV camera alongside hooligans during clashes on a tarmac area in front of a grandstand.
Pockets of fights broke out in a 15-minute period at the race meeting at Newbury Racecourse, at which crowds of 10,000 people were present on July 14, last year.
The quartet of defendants were described by prosecutors as "aggressive, violent and out of control."
A video grab of the brawl at Newbury racecourse
The brawl was described as being reminiscent of football hooliganism during the 1970s and 80s.
It may also have been pre-arranged according to one witness, although this was not part of the Crown's case.
Half a dozen people were injured, two people were knocked unconscious and another suffered facial injuries requiring 18 stitches.
Prosecutor Damian Van Duyvenbode told a hearing at Reading Crown Court: "On July 14, 2012, Newbury Racecourse hosted a large and well attended race meeting.
"It was thought about 10,000 or so punters came through the gates that day to watch the racing.
"The afternoon of the meeting was overshadowed by the eruption of violence on the concourse by the main stand.
"Witnesses thought up to 50 or 60 men were involved, throwing objects at each other and fighting.
"A quantity of alcohol may have been consumed but it was clear to them on that day that all the men involved were Welsh.
"There was no particular clear pattern of fighting, with pockets of fighting happening alongside multiple brawls, involving multi-participants.
"There was a grouping of males in two groups.
"What seemed to lie behind this outburst was violence was something amounting to intercity rivalry with a large group of males from Swansea or Cardiff.
"It was like something out of the 1970s or 80s when the game was gripped by large scale public disorder.
"It was out of such disorder back in those days that the 1986 Public Order Act was born."
The prosecutor said the offence of affray, for which the four defendants were charged, is a situation where violence takes place in public and causes people to fear for their safety.
"What actually caused this disorder we will probably never know and to some extent doesn't really matter," said Mr Van Duyvenbode.
Addressing the jury he said: "Your concerns are with the involvement of four men in the dock and whether ultimately I suspect if they were acting in self-defence.
"The racing that day was televised and the violence which happened that day around 3.50pm or 4pm was between two races.
"The television company had in fact turned one of their cameras around and started to film some of this disorder."
The jury of eight men and four women were shown several Youtube clips of the brawl taken by shocked spectators at the time and also footage from the TV company.
Each of the defendants could be seen clearly on screen becoming involved in the brawl as punches were thrown and angry words exchanged.
The prosecutor added: "We say they were aggressive, violent and out of control."
The defendants were on a stag do for pal Darren Wilcox - who was dressed as a jockey in orange - and were affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea.
Mr Wilcox's father, Wayne, was assaulted in the scuffle, as well as one of the defendants, Robert Jenkins, who was left in a state of semi-consciousness after being attacked.
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny, who was part of the stag do, was not present when the violence kicked off.
An off-duty Met Police officer witnessed the brawl from about 30 yards away, the hearing at Reading Crown Court was told.
Off-duty Detective Constable Gareth Starr, who was part of the stag party, told the hearing: "We were just to the left of the stand.
"I was with Chris Harris (also police officer attending the stag party). We were getting refreshments and were away from the main stag party for moments.
"This incident lasted for about 15 minutes.
"We had been sat down on the grass bank where two sets of white males, around 20 to 40 years, were.
"It started as a run-of-the-mill fight and I thought it would come to a natural conclusion.
"There were people punching each other.
"Security was coming in, trying to break it up, then you were getting pockets of fighting on the outskirts.
"One male who was wearing a suit has quite a nasty wound to his facial area.
"Over a period of 15 minutes the fighting moved over 50 yards to where the grandstand is and then back towards the corner before moving back where it had started.
"It was one of the most violent things I have seen."
The police officer of nine years service added: "I heard the words 'Soul Crew' being chanted, which is a hooligan term used by Cardiff City.
"It was chanted near the main entrance.
"It was coming from one group to another. There were two distinct groups."
The witness suggested that the clash was a pre-arranged fight, which had been organised for the previous day, but was rained off.
There was no evidence to confirm this was a fact, according to prosecutors.
Mr Starr said he had been on rugby trips previously with no hint of trouble.
He agreed with Ian Ibrahim, defending Davies, that there were four groups at the race meet - Cardiff and Swansea hooligans, innocent bystanders and the rugby club stag party.
Davies, of Priors Way, Dunvant, Swansea, David Jenkins of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
Another off-duty officer, who was in the stag party of 70 men from the Gorseinon Rugby Club, told how he dialled 999 after the disorder failed to die down.
Police constable Chris Harris from the Metropolitan Police told the jury: "There was a large fight that got out of control and was no longer able to be controlled by security.
"There were people that were still trying to ignite fighting.
"My understanding was that there wasn't any (police at the race meet). I certainly didn't see any.
"I got on the phone to a 999 operator. I gave the information I had."
Pc Harris, who knew the four defendants from the stag party through the rugby club, added: "A large part of the crowd began to jump and were bouncing on the spot. They were chanting 'Soul Crew'."
He confirmed that fighting broke out between two particular groups of Welsh football fans - separate from the defendants from the rugby club stag party when they got caught up in the cross-fire.
Most of the stag party wore checked shirts and flat caps, the hearing was told.
Asked by defence barrister Mr Ibrahim what the difference was comparing rugby and football fans, he replied: "Chalk and cheese.
"I have been involved in rugby from a young age and have seen no more than a cross word (between rugby fans).
"There's no disorder. It's a very good natured family day out. No more than animated banter.
"I dislike going to football matches because of the behaviour of fans."
Simon Barras, part of the Newbury racecourse's security responder team, said: "There were periods of calm then fighting."
Operations manager Lee Evans of Broadbase Events, which managed the security of the site that day, said in a police statement: "I could see between 50 and 120 people fighting near the grandstand area.
"It appeared to be men mostly throwing punches and kicks at each other - not one-on-one fighting.
"They were grabbing, pushing and shoving one another. It appeared to be hooligan style football violence.
"A decision was made by the company to not put our staff in any danger by stopping the fighting and police were called.
"The fighting was erupting, stopping and erupting again."
He said there were 20 people who had suffered injuries, from those with cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Mr Evans said he had only ever seen one incident of this type before which related to a fight between Swindon and Oxford football fans.
Bosses told their security staff to protect the injured by surrounding them until police arrived, the hearing was told.
Another member of the security team, Rhod Turner, said: "I could tell there was an atmosphere building and there were a lot of drunk males bumping into each other.
"They were around the stands. The atmosphere was volatile and I remember remarking to a colleague that it might kick-off.
"There were two groups of men singing football songs and trying to wind the other up.
"It had broken out to about 80 people fighting although there were pockets of fighting on and off.
"It soon became apparent we didn't have enough staff.
"Groups were punching and kicking one another. As soon as someone hit the floor they were kicked by more than one person.
"It felt like a riot. They were lashing out in all directions trying to hit who they could."
The jury was told that Wayne Wilcox - the father of the stag Darren - was assaulted from behind and robbed of the stag's betting cash.
The court heard the fight at Newbury Racecourse lasted up to 15 minutes.
Four men who were on a stag outing have denied being involved in a fight between football fans at a racecourse.
The jury at Reading Crown Court saw footage of a brawl on 14 July last year in which Cardiff City and Swansea City supporters clashed at Newbury races.
Wales international Leigh Halfpenny was in the rugby club stag party, but was not involved in the disorder the court was told.
' UPDATED '
Court told how rivalry between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans sparked mass brawl at racecourse
Wednesday 13th Nov 2013
Four men on trial at Reading Crown Court over 'violent and aggressive' fight at Newbury Racecourse in Berkshire
Newbury Racecourse, where the alleged brawl took place
Inter-city rivalry between Cardiff and Swansea ended in a mass brawl at a racecourse 150 miles away, a jury has heard.
Football fans from Cardiff and Swansea exchanged blows in a "violent and aggressive" punch-up which was caught on camera by Channel 4 racing.
By coincidence a stag party from South Wales were also at the racecourse in Newbury, Berkshire, and became embroiled in the violence.
Details of the mass brawl, which involved up to 60 men during a race meeting in Newbury, were revealed to the jury where four fans were on trial.
The court was told that according to one witness, the incident was a pre-arranged fight between fierce South Wales rivals Swansea and Cardiff. which had previously been "rained off."
Joshua Davies, 24, David Jenkins, 32, Robert Jenkins, 32, and Ryan Thomas, 29, were captured on a Channel 4's TV camera alongside hooligans during clashes on a tarmac area in front of a grandstand.
Pockets of fights broke out in a 15-minute period at the race meeting at Newbury Racecourse, at which crowds of 10,000 people were present on July 14, last year.
The quartet of defendants were described by prosecutors as "aggressive, violent and out of control."
The brawl was described as being reminiscent of football hooliganism during the 1970s and 80s.
It may also have been pre-arranged according to one witness, although this was not part of the Crown's case.
Half a dozen people were injured, two people were knocked unconscious and another suffered facial injuries requiring 18 stitches.
Prosecutor Damian Van Duyvenbode told a hearing at Reading Crown Court: "On July 14, 2012, Newbury Racecourse hosted a large and well attended race meeting.
"It was thought about 10,000 or so punters came through the gates that day to watch the racing.
"The afternoon of the meeting was overshadowed by the eruption of violence on the concourse by the main stand.
"Witnesses thought up to 50 or 60 men were involved, throwing objects at each other and fighting.
"A quantity of alcohol may have been consumed but it was clear to them on that day that all the men involved were Welsh.
"There was no particular clear pattern of fighting, with pockets of fighting happening alongside multiple brawls, involving multi-participants.
"There was a grouping of males in two groups.
"What seemed to lie behind this outburst was violence was something amounting to intercity rivalry with a large group of males from Swansea or Cardiff.
"It was like something out of the 1970s or 80s when the game was gripped by large scale public disorder.
"It was out of such disorder back in those days that the 1986 Public Order Act was born."
The prosecutor said the offence of affray, for which the four defendants were charged, is a situation where violence takes place in public and causes people to fear for their safety.
"What actually caused this disorder we will probably never know and to some extent doesn't really matter," said Mr Van Duyvenbode.
Addressing the jury he said: "Your concerns are with the involvement of four men in the dock and whether ultimately I suspect if they were acting in self-defence.
"The racing that day was televised and the violence which happened that day around 3.50pm or 4pm was between two races.
"The television company had in fact turned one of their cameras around and started to film some of this disorder."
The jury of eight men and four women were shown several Youtube clips of the brawl taken by shocked spectators at the time and also footage from the TV company.
Each of the defendants could be seen clearly on screen becoming involved in the brawl as punches were thrown and angry words exchanged.
The prosecutor added: "We say they were aggressive, violent and out of control."
The defendants were on a stag do for pal Darren Wilcox - who was dressed as a jockey in orange - and were affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea.
Mr Wilcox's father, Wayne, was assaulted in the scuffle, as well as one of the defendants, Robert Jenkins, who was left in a state of semi-consciousness after being attacked.
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny, who was part of the stag do, was not present when the violence kicked off.
An off-duty Met Police officer witnessed the brawl from about 30 yards away, the hearing at Reading Crown Court was told.
Off-duty Detective Constable Gareth Starr, who was part of the stag party, told the hearing: "We were just to the left of the stand.
"I was with Chris Harris (also police officer attending the stag party). We were getting refreshments and were away from the main stag party for moments.
"This incident lasted for about 15 minutes.
"We had been sat down on the grass bank where two sets of white males, around 20 to 40 years, were.
"It started as a run-of-the-mill fight and I thought it would come to a natural conclusion.
"There were people punching each other.
"Security was coming in, trying to break it up, then you were getting pockets of fighting on the outskirts.
"One male who was wearing a suit has quite a nasty wound to his facial area.
"Over a period of 15 minutes the fighting moved over 50 yards to where the grandstand is and then back towards the corner before moving back where it had started.
"It was one of the most violent things I have seen."
The police officer of nine years service added: "I heard the words 'Soul Crew' being chanted, which is a hooligan term used by Cardiff City.
"It was chanted near the main entrance.
"It was coming from one group to another. There were two distinct groups."
The witness suggested that the clash was a pre-arranged fight, which had been organised for the previous day, but was rained off.
There was no evidence to confirm this was a fact, according to prosecutors.
Mr Starr said he had been on rugby trips previously with no hint of trouble.
He agreed with Ian Ibrahim, defending Davies, that there were four groups at the race meet - Cardiff and Swansea hooligans, innocent bystanders and the rugby club stag party.
Davies, of Priors Way, Dunvant, Swansea, David Jenkins of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
Another off-duty officer, who was in the stag party of 70 men from the Gorseinon Rugby Club, told how he dialled 999 after the disorder failed to die down.
Police constable Chris Harris from the Metropolitan Police told the jury: "There was a large fight that got out of control and was no longer able to be controlled by security.
"There were people that were still trying to ignite fighting.
"My understanding was that there wasn't any (police at the race meet). I certainly didn't see any.
"I got on the phone to a 999 operator. I gave the information I had."
Pc Harris, who knew the four defendants from the stag party through the rugby club, added: "A large part of the crowd began to jump and were bouncing on the spot. They were chanting 'Soul Crew'."
He confirmed that fighting broke out between two particular groups of Welsh football fans - separate from the defendants from the rugby club stag party when they got caught up in the cross-fire.
Most of the stag party wore checked shirts and flat caps, the hearing was told.
Asked by defence barrister Mr Ibrahim what the difference was comparing rugby and football fans, he replied: "Chalk and cheese.
"I have been involved in rugby from a young age and have seen no more than a cross word (between rugby fans).
"There's no disorder. It's a very good natured family day out. No more than animated banter.
"I dislike going to football matches because of the behaviour of fans."
Simon Barras, part of the Newbury racecourse's security responder team, said: "There were periods of calm then fighting."
Operations manager Lee Evans of Broadbase Events, which managed the security of the site that day, said in a police statement: "I could see between 50 and 120 people fighting near the grandstand area.
"It appeared to be men mostly throwing punches and kicks at each other - not one-on-one fighting.
"They were grabbing, pushing and shoving one another. It appeared to be hooligan style football violence.
"A decision was made by the company to not put our staff in any danger by stopping the fighting and police were called.
"The fighting was erupting, stopping and erupting again."
He said there were 20 people who had suffered injuries, from those with cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Mr Evans said he had only ever seen one incident of this type before which related to a fight between Swindon and Oxford football fans.
Bosses told their security staff to protect the injured by surrounding them until police arrived, the hearing was told.
Another member of the security team, Rhod Turner, said: "I could tell there was an atmosphere building and there were a lot of drunk males bumping into each other.
"They were around the stands. The atmosphere was volatile and I remember remarking to a colleague that it might kick-off.
"There were two groups of men singing football songs and trying to wind the other up.
"It had broken out to about 80 people fighting although there were pockets of fighting on and off.
"It soon became apparent we didn't have enough staff.
"Groups were punching and kicking one another. As soon as someone hit the floor they were kicked by more than one person.
"It felt like a riot. They were lashing out in all directions trying to hit who they could."
The jury was told that Wayne Wilcox - the father of the stag Darren - was assaulted from behind and robbed of the stag's betting cash.
The Rugby fans who attacked football fans were All Found Not Guilty, they had said it was self defence.
Jurors agreed that rugby club members Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas acted in self-defence to protect themselves and pals when dozens of rival thugs clashed in front of 10,000 shocked racing punters.
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
Newbury Racecourse stag party brawl men found not guilty
Thursday 21st Nov 2013
The men said there were acting in self defence after getting caught up in a brawl between football fans at the prestigious racecourse
Four members of a Welsh stag party who became embroiled in a mass brawl between rival football hooligans at a race meeting were cleared of affray today.
Jurors agreed that rugby club members Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas acted in self-defence to protect themselves and pals when dozens of rival thugs clashed in front of 10,000 shocked racing punters.
Hooligans from Swansea City and Cardiff City rained down punches on each other during a 15-minute "pre-arranged fight" Newbury racecourse, Berks, the jury heard.
The scenes, likened to 1980s football hooliganism, were captured on live cameras filming for Channel 4 racing and sent shockwaves through the sport.
Prosecutors claimed the four Welshmen were "aggressive, violent and out of control" during the fighting which left 20 people injured.
However, the defendants successfully claimed they had merely acted to defend themselves and their friends when the violence kicked off.
The men were on a stag party for pal Darren Wilcox - who was dressed as a jockey in orange - and were affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea.
Mr Wilcox's father, Wayne, was assaulted in the scuffle, as well as one of the defandants, Robert Jenkins, who was left in a state of semi-consciousness after being attacked.
During a nine-day trial at Reading Crown Court, the jury heard there were hooligan chants of "Soul Crew" from Cardiff and "Jack Army" from Swansea fans before the trouble escalated.
A Channel 4 racing TV camera and YouTube clips posted online by shocked spectators showed pockets of fights between 60 men breaking out at Newbury Racecourse, Berks., on July 14, last year.
Davies, 25, of Priors Way, Dunvant, David Jenkins, 32, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins, 32, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and 30-year-old Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, were cleared of affray by a jury of eight men and four women after two hours and 44 minutes of deliberations.
The men, who all wore suits and ties in the dock, smiled and breathed sighs of relief as the verdicts were delivered. Afterwards, they embraced each other and family members outside of the court.
Four other men charged with affray over the mass brawl had pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing.
They included Nicholas Southgate, aged 25 years, of Glynrhosyn, Gorseinon, Swansea, and Adam Gregory, aged 26 years, of Ridgeway, Swansea, who were on the stag do and are also members of Gorseinon Rugby Club.
James Farrell, aged 45 years, of Frewer Avenue, Cardiff, and Steven Jones, aged 42 years, of Kildare Street, Manselton, Swansea, were not part of the stag do or linked to the rugby club.
Cardiff Blues winger and Wales International Leigh Halfpenny, 24, was also on the stag do. However, he was not present when the fighting started and was not involved.
The four men will be sentenced before Judge Zoe Smith at Reading Crown Court at a date yet to be fixed.
FINAL DAY/ JURY RETIRED ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT '
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
FINAL DAY/ JURY RETIRED ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT
Wednesday 20th November 2013
Newbury Racecourse stag party brawl: Jury retires to consider verdict
The court heard the fight at Newbury Racecourse lasted up to 15 minutes
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
The jury in the trial of four men charged with being involved in a fight between football fans during a stag outing at a racecourse has retired to consider its verdict.
The men, all members of a Welsh rugby club, were on a trip to Newbury races in July last year when up to 70 people clashed.
Fighting lasted for up to 15 minutes with many receiving serious injuries.
All four men deny affray and claim self-defence.
During the trial, the jury at Reading Crown Court viewed footage of the disorder captured on both YouTube by spectators, and on Channel 4's television coverage on 14 July 2012.
The court heard many of those involved in the fighting were supporters from Cardiff City and Swansea City in what one witness believed was an "organised, pre-arranged fight".
Chants of "Jack Army" and "Soul Crew", associated to both football clubs, were heard towards the end of the fighting.
Throwing punches
The defendants Robert Jenkins, 32, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, Ryan Thomas, 30, Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, Joshua Davies, 25, of Priors Way, Dunvant, and David Jenkins, 32, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, were all on a stag party with members of Gorseinon Rugby Club.
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny was also in the 80-strong group from the rugby club, but not involved in any of the disturbance.
While three of the defendants admitted throwing punches, they told the court their actions were a response to feeling "under threat of immediate danger" and "in defence of themselves and those around them".
The jury also heard how one of the rugby club's buses was attacked with stones after the fighting died down, as they prepared to return home from the racecourse.
Summing up, Judge Zoe Smith told the jury of four women and eight men that they should treat all four defendants as men of good character, and that credit should be given to them for voluntarily handing themselves into police to give evidence.
She said: "You must ask yourselves whether the actions on that day of each defendant when seen to be using force, show them not acting in lawful self-defence."
Judge Smith asked the jury, where possible, to return majority verdicts on each of the defendants.
DAY 5 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT '
Stag party revellers 'had to fight for their lives' to defend themselves in Newbury brawl between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans
15th Nov 2013
“It was clearly coming from the Cardiff supporters.
Stag party revellers had to “fight for their lives” in self-defence as they became embroiled in a brawl between rival football club fans, a jury was told.
Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas got caught up in a violent disorder between Cardiff City and Swansea City supporters at a racecourse.
Chants of “Soul Crew” from Cardiff and “Jack Army” from Swansea fans had been heard before the trouble escalated.
A Channel 4 racing TV camera and Youtube clips posted online by shocked spectators showed pockets of fights breaking out in a 15-minute period at Newbury Racecourse, Berks., where 10,000 racegoers had attended on July 14, last year.
Witnesses described up to 20 people suffering injuries from cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Giving evidence Lewis Glynn, 25, who was part of the stag do with members of the Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea, said: “People were being attacked by twos or threes.
“If they were going down they were being stamped on the head. These men were crazed.
“I saw Wayne Wilcox – the father of the stag – being kicked in the head.
“It was clearly coming from the Cardiff supporters.
“I saw Paul Jenkins getting punched. I saw him fall to the floor. I could see someone with a stamping motion with hands in the air and stamping in his direction where he was. I could hear the crowd who were in shock.
“I dragged him out. He was completely limp. He was unconscious. I dragged him out as far as I could and I stood over him.
“I could see someone running at us. I stood over his head. Luckily he saw someone else and went to punch them.
“Normally I would think of first aid bit I just stood there shocked.
“I made sure his tongue didn’t go down his throat.”
He said stewards and a paramedic came over to help.
Mr Glynn, a technical coordinator and former lifeguard, told the hearing at Reading Crown Court that the Cardiff men later turned their attentions to his pal Davies.
“They were pointing at him and saying, ‘him in the f*****g jacket – f******g kill him’,” he said.
“I was trying to shield him.
“If you could be seen you could be attacked.
“He was being attacked and I want to protect him.
“We didn’t know if we were fighting for our lives.”
Warehouse manager Robert Paul Jenkins, known as PJ, had organised the trip to the racecourse as he was one of the best men.
“Everyone was in highs spirits and looking forward to it,” he told eight men and four women of the jury.
He told the hearing that several men came charging at him at about 4pm that day below a grandstand.
Wearing a smart suit and tie, he said: “I caught a glimpse of someone coming towards me swinging a massive punch. He was a man in a suit.
“I took a couple of steps back.
“I had seen Darren the groom get punched.
“There was a surge of people coming from behind me. I remember stepping over Darren at that point.
“This was so he wasn’t exposed. As we moved forward I threw a punch into a large group of people who had just surged on us to force them backwards.
“Seeing Darren getting punched to the ground at the time it was just at that moment of time to push them back.
“I saw Josh got punched. Adam (Gregory) had gone in to get Josh out and I had gone in to help them.
“I was surrounded by a group of males I did not know.
“I started waking in the direction of Wayne to try and get out.
“Then I got punched from the side across the face by Mr (James) Farrell.
“Three or four men surged forward and I threw a punch at the man who had punched me in self-defence.
“As he had punched me already I thought I was in danger of being punched by him again.
“I just remember more and more punches being rained in on me. I remember being on the ground my hands being knocked out in front of me and my head being smashed into the tarmac, which caused a nasty injury.
“I remember being on the ground trying to fight my way up and remember seeing Lewis’ face(standing over me).”
He suffered concussion as well as a large graze above his left eye and numerous cuts and bruises to his face, which required hospital treatment.
Davies, 25, of Priors Way, Dunvant, David Jenkins, 32, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins, 32, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and 30-year-old Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
The jury were told that four other men had pleaded guilty to affray over the brawl.
They included Nicholas Southgate, 25, of Glynrhosyn, Gorseinon, Swansea, and Adam Gregory, 26, of Ridgeway, Swansea, who were part of the rugby club on the stag do.
James Farrell, 45, of Frewer Avenue, Cardiff, and Steven Jones, 42, of Kildare Street, Manselton, Swansea, were not part of the stag do or linked to the rugby club.
' The trial, before Judge Zoe Smith, was adjourned until Monday. '
DAY 4 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT
" They said they wanted to 'f****** kill me and batter me'.
Men caught up in violent brawl between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans were acting in self defence, court hears
15th Nov 2013
The four - affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea - had been drinking at Newbury race course when rival Cardiff City and Swansea City hooligans clashed.
The trial before Judge Zoe Smith, which was expected to run into next week, continues.
Four men on a stag do who got caught up in a violent brawl between fans from intercity football clubs were acting in self-defence after their pals were assaulted, a judge and jury were told today.
Joshua Davies, David Jenkins, Robert Jenkins and Ryan Thomas were celebrating a pal's imminent wedding in a party of 70 men, which included Wales international rugby player Leigh Halfpenny, when trouble flared at a racecourse.
The four - affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea - had been drinking below a grandstand when rival Cardiff City and Swansea City hooligans clashed.
The jury was shown footage from Channel 4's TV camera and Youtube clips posted online by spectators showing the pockets of fights which broke out in a 15-minute period at Newbury Race course, Berks., at which crowds of 10,000 people were present on July 14, last year.
Today, a hearing at Reading Crown Court was told that police used all the footage to compile pictures of eight men involved in fighting and released them to the Welsh media for the public to identify.
The four defendants came forward as a result and were interviewed by detectives at Newbury Police station.
Each gave a prepared statement to officers citing that the stag's father Wayne Wilcox, aged in his 60s, had been attacked, as well as the joint best man and co-accused Robert Jenkins.
Prosecutor Damian Van Duyvenbode read each statement aloud to the jury of eight men and four women today.
Davies' statement read: "I was at Newbury races. I saw a group of boys over by the grandstand causing trouble by throwing drinks and fighting.
"I wanted no part of it. I noticed Wayne Wilcox on the floor and our boys standing around him to protect him.
"I did throw punches reacting to threat at my friends.
"I was on the receiving end of a few punches."
The statement of Robert Paul Jenkins, known as PJ, was then read.
"I accept I was at Newbury Races on July 14, 2012," he said.
"I know nothing about any pre-arranged fight between Swansea City and Cardiff FC supporters.
"I was there on a stag party from Gorseinon rugby football club.
"I do not support Swansea or Cardiff football clubs.
"During the afternoon I saw a fight break out. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was assaulted. I may have thrown punches in self-defence as persons continued to assault me. I am an entirely innocent party.
"I was kicked a number of times on the floor. I know friends of mine helped me and prevented me being further assaulted."
Thomas' statement read: "I accept I as at Newbury races on the day in question.
"I went there as part of a pre-arranged stag night with friends from Gorseinon rugby football club.
"I have no knowledge or affiliation with Swansea or Cardiff FC.
"During the afternoon a fight broke out. I could see members of party effectively being assaulted.
"I witnessed by neighbour being knocked out and my friend being kicked on the floor.
"It was clear to me that security staff couldn't really get involved due to the nature of the incident.
"I therefore made a judgement call to intervene only to act to defend people who I knew could have been seriously injured and were in immediate danger.
"I acted at all relevant times in defence of others and at no point the aggressor."
A videograb from YouTube showing the brawl at Newbury racecourse
David Jenkins - no relation to Robert - said in his statement: "I accept I was at Newbury races. There was an incident.
"I turned and saw my friend Paul (Robert) Jenkins on the floor.
"He was being kicked. I ran over and pushed a group of males back.
"I stood over Paul as he appeared unconscious. I told the boys to 'f**k off' as Paul had had enough.
"I think I swung one punch only as I thought I was going to be assaulted.
"The male said I was 'having it'. I acted in defence of myself and Paul."
The Crown say the men were "aggressive, violent and out of control."
The fighting was compared with violent scenes from the 1970s or 80s when football was gripped by large scale public disorder.
Witnesses described up to 20 people who had suffered injuries from those with cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Bloodied and battered Nils Arneson, aged 45 years - a "well-documented" Cardiff City hooligan - was captured on screen in the crowds during the disorder.
He has a conviction for affray from 2000, and a violent disorder conviction from 2004 where he was handed a 10-year football banning order, a hearing was told.
Davies, who celebrated his 25th birthday today, of Priors Way, Dunvant, David Jenkins, aged 32 years, of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins, aged 32 years, of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and Thomas, who turned 30 years yesterday/on Wednesday, of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
The jury was told today that four other men had pleaded guilty to affray over the brawl.
They included Nicholas Southgate, aged 25 years, of Glynrhosyn, Gorseinon, Swansea, and Adam Gregory, aged 26 years, of Ridgeway, Swansea, who were part of the rugby club on the stag do.
And James Farrell, aged 45 years, of Frewer Avenue, Cardiff, and Steven Jones, aged 42 years, of Kildare Street, Manselton, Swansea, who were not part of the stag do or linked to the rugby club.
Jones told police that football thug Arneson had arranged a pre-arranged fight at Newbury through Facebook. However, despite investigations officers could find no evidence of this.
Giving evidence from the witness box Davies said: "There were chants that I know are Swansea City football chants of Jack B*******, Jack Army, that kind of thing.
"I could hear 'Soul Crew' being chanted. It was coming from a group of men facing them.
"They were in smart suits. A few members of our party looked distressed. There was a boy from our party on crutches.
"There was a mass brawl of men in suits punching and kicking a handful of my friends.
"There were three or four people ganging up on one individual on their own.
"My friends were being punched and kicked. I just wanted to help them get away from being ambushed.
"There were senior members and a lot of boys from our group getting attacked.
"I myself was being punched. One man in a shirt was attacking me. His friend came in following him and started punching me.
"I did not antagonise them and haven't seen them before. I was covering my head and a couple of my friends came in and pulled me away. Paul came and he got pulled in to the floor."
Davies, an engineer who worked for Tallis, an MOD contractor firm which fits communication systems in military vehicles, added: "I was being attacked and threw my arms up to release myself to try to get away from these men who were grabbing me.
"They said they wanted to 'f****** kill me and batter me'.
"Paul was being attacked by four or five people on his own - punches, kicks landing on the head, waist, it was a lot."
The brown-haired defendant added: "I was just set upon and I was defending myself.
"This guy was shouting at me 'I'm going to f****** kill you.
"I was shocked. I was so frightened. I was being followed around, so I shouted 'just leave us alone'."
He went on: "My friends had been set upon and I went to intervene to stop them being hurt or attacked.
"If I had turned away they would have followed us and attacked me from behind.
"My friends were being attacked. I couldn't just leave them."
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny, who was part of the stag do, was not present when the violence kicked off.
The trial before Judge Zoe Smith, which was expected to run into next week, continues.
DAY 3 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COURT '
Court told how rivalry between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans sparked mass brawl at racecourse
Thursday 13th Nov 2013
Four men on trial at Reading Crown Court over 'violent and aggressive' fight at Newbury Racecourse in Berkshire
Inter-city rivalry between Cardiff and Swansea ended in a mass brawl at a racecourse 150 miles away, a jury has heard.
Football fans from Cardiff and Swansea exchanged blows in a "violent and aggressive" punch-up which was caught on camera by Channel 4 racing.
By coincidence a stag party from South Wales were also at the racecourse in Newbury, Berkshire, and became embroiled in the violence.
Details of the mass brawl, which involved up to 60 men during a race meeting in Newbury, were revealed to the jury where four fans were on trial.
The court was told that according to one witness, the incident was a pre-arranged fight between fierce South Wales rivals Swansea and Cardiff. which had previously been "rained off."
Joshua Davies, 24, David Jenkins, 32, Robert Jenkins, 32, and Ryan Thomas, 29, were captured on a Channel 4's TV camera alongside hooligans during clashes on a tarmac area in front of a grandstand.
Pockets of fights broke out in a 15-minute period at the race meeting at Newbury Racecourse, at which crowds of 10,000 people were present on July 14, last year.
The quartet of defendants were described by prosecutors as "aggressive, violent and out of control."
A video grab of the brawl at Newbury racecourse
The brawl was described as being reminiscent of football hooliganism during the 1970s and 80s.
It may also have been pre-arranged according to one witness, although this was not part of the Crown's case.
Half a dozen people were injured, two people were knocked unconscious and another suffered facial injuries requiring 18 stitches.
Prosecutor Damian Van Duyvenbode told a hearing at Reading Crown Court: "On July 14, 2012, Newbury Racecourse hosted a large and well attended race meeting.
"It was thought about 10,000 or so punters came through the gates that day to watch the racing.
"The afternoon of the meeting was overshadowed by the eruption of violence on the concourse by the main stand.
"Witnesses thought up to 50 or 60 men were involved, throwing objects at each other and fighting.
"A quantity of alcohol may have been consumed but it was clear to them on that day that all the men involved were Welsh.
"There was no particular clear pattern of fighting, with pockets of fighting happening alongside multiple brawls, involving multi-participants.
"There was a grouping of males in two groups.
"What seemed to lie behind this outburst was violence was something amounting to intercity rivalry with a large group of males from Swansea or Cardiff.
"It was like something out of the 1970s or 80s when the game was gripped by large scale public disorder.
"It was out of such disorder back in those days that the 1986 Public Order Act was born."
The prosecutor said the offence of affray, for which the four defendants were charged, is a situation where violence takes place in public and causes people to fear for their safety.
"What actually caused this disorder we will probably never know and to some extent doesn't really matter," said Mr Van Duyvenbode.
Addressing the jury he said: "Your concerns are with the involvement of four men in the dock and whether ultimately I suspect if they were acting in self-defence.
"The racing that day was televised and the violence which happened that day around 3.50pm or 4pm was between two races.
"The television company had in fact turned one of their cameras around and started to film some of this disorder."
The jury of eight men and four women were shown several Youtube clips of the brawl taken by shocked spectators at the time and also footage from the TV company.
Each of the defendants could be seen clearly on screen becoming involved in the brawl as punches were thrown and angry words exchanged.
The prosecutor added: "We say they were aggressive, violent and out of control."
The defendants were on a stag do for pal Darren Wilcox - who was dressed as a jockey in orange - and were affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea.
Mr Wilcox's father, Wayne, was assaulted in the scuffle, as well as one of the defendants, Robert Jenkins, who was left in a state of semi-consciousness after being attacked.
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny, who was part of the stag do, was not present when the violence kicked off.
An off-duty Met Police officer witnessed the brawl from about 30 yards away, the hearing at Reading Crown Court was told.
Off-duty Detective Constable Gareth Starr, who was part of the stag party, told the hearing: "We were just to the left of the stand.
"I was with Chris Harris (also police officer attending the stag party). We were getting refreshments and were away from the main stag party for moments.
"This incident lasted for about 15 minutes.
"We had been sat down on the grass bank where two sets of white males, around 20 to 40 years, were.
"It started as a run-of-the-mill fight and I thought it would come to a natural conclusion.
"There were people punching each other.
"Security was coming in, trying to break it up, then you were getting pockets of fighting on the outskirts.
"One male who was wearing a suit has quite a nasty wound to his facial area.
"Over a period of 15 minutes the fighting moved over 50 yards to where the grandstand is and then back towards the corner before moving back where it had started.
"It was one of the most violent things I have seen."
The police officer of nine years service added: "I heard the words 'Soul Crew' being chanted, which is a hooligan term used by Cardiff City.
"It was chanted near the main entrance.
"It was coming from one group to another. There were two distinct groups."
The witness suggested that the clash was a pre-arranged fight, which had been organised for the previous day, but was rained off.
There was no evidence to confirm this was a fact, according to prosecutors.
Mr Starr said he had been on rugby trips previously with no hint of trouble.
He agreed with Ian Ibrahim, defending Davies, that there were four groups at the race meet - Cardiff and Swansea hooligans, innocent bystanders and the rugby club stag party.
Davies, of Priors Way, Dunvant, Swansea, David Jenkins of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
Another off-duty officer, who was in the stag party of 70 men from the Gorseinon Rugby Club, told how he dialled 999 after the disorder failed to die down.
Police constable Chris Harris from the Metropolitan Police told the jury: "There was a large fight that got out of control and was no longer able to be controlled by security.
"There were people that were still trying to ignite fighting.
"My understanding was that there wasn't any (police at the race meet). I certainly didn't see any.
"I got on the phone to a 999 operator. I gave the information I had."
Pc Harris, who knew the four defendants from the stag party through the rugby club, added: "A large part of the crowd began to jump and were bouncing on the spot. They were chanting 'Soul Crew'."
He confirmed that fighting broke out between two particular groups of Welsh football fans - separate from the defendants from the rugby club stag party when they got caught up in the cross-fire.
Most of the stag party wore checked shirts and flat caps, the hearing was told.
Asked by defence barrister Mr Ibrahim what the difference was comparing rugby and football fans, he replied: "Chalk and cheese.
"I have been involved in rugby from a young age and have seen no more than a cross word (between rugby fans).
"There's no disorder. It's a very good natured family day out. No more than animated banter.
"I dislike going to football matches because of the behaviour of fans."
Simon Barras, part of the Newbury racecourse's security responder team, said: "There were periods of calm then fighting."
Operations manager Lee Evans of Broadbase Events, which managed the security of the site that day, said in a police statement: "I could see between 50 and 120 people fighting near the grandstand area.
"It appeared to be men mostly throwing punches and kicks at each other - not one-on-one fighting.
"They were grabbing, pushing and shoving one another. It appeared to be hooligan style football violence.
"A decision was made by the company to not put our staff in any danger by stopping the fighting and police were called.
"The fighting was erupting, stopping and erupting again."
He said there were 20 people who had suffered injuries, from those with cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Mr Evans said he had only ever seen one incident of this type before which related to a fight between Swindon and Oxford football fans.
Bosses told their security staff to protect the injured by surrounding them until police arrived, the hearing was told.
Another member of the security team, Rhod Turner, said: "I could tell there was an atmosphere building and there were a lot of drunk males bumping into each other.
"They were around the stands. The atmosphere was volatile and I remember remarking to a colleague that it might kick-off.
"There were two groups of men singing football songs and trying to wind the other up.
"It had broken out to about 80 people fighting although there were pockets of fighting on and off.
"It soon became apparent we didn't have enough staff.
"Groups were punching and kicking one another. As soon as someone hit the floor they were kicked by more than one person.
"It felt like a riot. They were lashing out in all directions trying to hit who they could."
The jury was told that Wayne Wilcox - the father of the stag Darren - was assaulted from behind and robbed of the stag's betting cash.
The court heard the fight at Newbury Racecourse lasted up to 15 minutes.
Four men who were on a stag outing have denied being involved in a fight between football fans at a racecourse.
The jury at Reading Crown Court saw footage of a brawl on 14 July last year in which Cardiff City and Swansea City supporters clashed at Newbury races.
Wales international Leigh Halfpenny was in the rugby club stag party, but was not involved in the disorder the court was told.
' UPDATED '
Court told how rivalry between Cardiff City and Swansea City fans sparked mass brawl at racecourse
Wednesday 13th Nov 2013
Four men on trial at Reading Crown Court over 'violent and aggressive' fight at Newbury Racecourse in Berkshire
Newbury Racecourse, where the alleged brawl took place
Inter-city rivalry between Cardiff and Swansea ended in a mass brawl at a racecourse 150 miles away, a jury has heard.
Football fans from Cardiff and Swansea exchanged blows in a "violent and aggressive" punch-up which was caught on camera by Channel 4 racing.
By coincidence a stag party from South Wales were also at the racecourse in Newbury, Berkshire, and became embroiled in the violence.
Details of the mass brawl, which involved up to 60 men during a race meeting in Newbury, were revealed to the jury where four fans were on trial.
The court was told that according to one witness, the incident was a pre-arranged fight between fierce South Wales rivals Swansea and Cardiff. which had previously been "rained off."
Joshua Davies, 24, David Jenkins, 32, Robert Jenkins, 32, and Ryan Thomas, 29, were captured on a Channel 4's TV camera alongside hooligans during clashes on a tarmac area in front of a grandstand.
Pockets of fights broke out in a 15-minute period at the race meeting at Newbury Racecourse, at which crowds of 10,000 people were present on July 14, last year.
The quartet of defendants were described by prosecutors as "aggressive, violent and out of control."
The brawl was described as being reminiscent of football hooliganism during the 1970s and 80s.
It may also have been pre-arranged according to one witness, although this was not part of the Crown's case.
Half a dozen people were injured, two people were knocked unconscious and another suffered facial injuries requiring 18 stitches.
Prosecutor Damian Van Duyvenbode told a hearing at Reading Crown Court: "On July 14, 2012, Newbury Racecourse hosted a large and well attended race meeting.
"It was thought about 10,000 or so punters came through the gates that day to watch the racing.
"The afternoon of the meeting was overshadowed by the eruption of violence on the concourse by the main stand.
"Witnesses thought up to 50 or 60 men were involved, throwing objects at each other and fighting.
"A quantity of alcohol may have been consumed but it was clear to them on that day that all the men involved were Welsh.
"There was no particular clear pattern of fighting, with pockets of fighting happening alongside multiple brawls, involving multi-participants.
"There was a grouping of males in two groups.
"What seemed to lie behind this outburst was violence was something amounting to intercity rivalry with a large group of males from Swansea or Cardiff.
"It was like something out of the 1970s or 80s when the game was gripped by large scale public disorder.
"It was out of such disorder back in those days that the 1986 Public Order Act was born."
The prosecutor said the offence of affray, for which the four defendants were charged, is a situation where violence takes place in public and causes people to fear for their safety.
"What actually caused this disorder we will probably never know and to some extent doesn't really matter," said Mr Van Duyvenbode.
Addressing the jury he said: "Your concerns are with the involvement of four men in the dock and whether ultimately I suspect if they were acting in self-defence.
"The racing that day was televised and the violence which happened that day around 3.50pm or 4pm was between two races.
"The television company had in fact turned one of their cameras around and started to film some of this disorder."
The jury of eight men and four women were shown several Youtube clips of the brawl taken by shocked spectators at the time and also footage from the TV company.
Each of the defendants could be seen clearly on screen becoming involved in the brawl as punches were thrown and angry words exchanged.
The prosecutor added: "We say they were aggressive, violent and out of control."
The defendants were on a stag do for pal Darren Wilcox - who was dressed as a jockey in orange - and were affiliated to Gorseinon Rugby Club, near Swansea.
Mr Wilcox's father, Wayne, was assaulted in the scuffle, as well as one of the defendants, Robert Jenkins, who was left in a state of semi-consciousness after being attacked.
Wales full-back Leigh Halfpenny, who was part of the stag do, was not present when the violence kicked off.
An off-duty Met Police officer witnessed the brawl from about 30 yards away, the hearing at Reading Crown Court was told.
Off-duty Detective Constable Gareth Starr, who was part of the stag party, told the hearing: "We were just to the left of the stand.
"I was with Chris Harris (also police officer attending the stag party). We were getting refreshments and were away from the main stag party for moments.
"This incident lasted for about 15 minutes.
"We had been sat down on the grass bank where two sets of white males, around 20 to 40 years, were.
"It started as a run-of-the-mill fight and I thought it would come to a natural conclusion.
"There were people punching each other.
"Security was coming in, trying to break it up, then you were getting pockets of fighting on the outskirts.
"One male who was wearing a suit has quite a nasty wound to his facial area.
"Over a period of 15 minutes the fighting moved over 50 yards to where the grandstand is and then back towards the corner before moving back where it had started.
"It was one of the most violent things I have seen."
The police officer of nine years service added: "I heard the words 'Soul Crew' being chanted, which is a hooligan term used by Cardiff City.
"It was chanted near the main entrance.
"It was coming from one group to another. There were two distinct groups."
The witness suggested that the clash was a pre-arranged fight, which had been organised for the previous day, but was rained off.
There was no evidence to confirm this was a fact, according to prosecutors.
Mr Starr said he had been on rugby trips previously with no hint of trouble.
He agreed with Ian Ibrahim, defending Davies, that there were four groups at the race meet - Cardiff and Swansea hooligans, innocent bystanders and the rugby club stag party.
Davies, of Priors Way, Dunvant, Swansea, David Jenkins of Gryn Rhos, Llanelli, Robert Jenkins of Heathfield, Gorseinon, and Thomas of Brynffynon Road, Gorseinon, all deny causing affray.
Another off-duty officer, who was in the stag party of 70 men from the Gorseinon Rugby Club, told how he dialled 999 after the disorder failed to die down.
Police constable Chris Harris from the Metropolitan Police told the jury: "There was a large fight that got out of control and was no longer able to be controlled by security.
"There were people that were still trying to ignite fighting.
"My understanding was that there wasn't any (police at the race meet). I certainly didn't see any.
"I got on the phone to a 999 operator. I gave the information I had."
Pc Harris, who knew the four defendants from the stag party through the rugby club, added: "A large part of the crowd began to jump and were bouncing on the spot. They were chanting 'Soul Crew'."
He confirmed that fighting broke out between two particular groups of Welsh football fans - separate from the defendants from the rugby club stag party when they got caught up in the cross-fire.
Most of the stag party wore checked shirts and flat caps, the hearing was told.
Asked by defence barrister Mr Ibrahim what the difference was comparing rugby and football fans, he replied: "Chalk and cheese.
"I have been involved in rugby from a young age and have seen no more than a cross word (between rugby fans).
"There's no disorder. It's a very good natured family day out. No more than animated banter.
"I dislike going to football matches because of the behaviour of fans."
Simon Barras, part of the Newbury racecourse's security responder team, said: "There were periods of calm then fighting."
Operations manager Lee Evans of Broadbase Events, which managed the security of the site that day, said in a police statement: "I could see between 50 and 120 people fighting near the grandstand area.
"It appeared to be men mostly throwing punches and kicks at each other - not one-on-one fighting.
"They were grabbing, pushing and shoving one another. It appeared to be hooligan style football violence.
"A decision was made by the company to not put our staff in any danger by stopping the fighting and police were called.
"The fighting was erupting, stopping and erupting again."
He said there were 20 people who had suffered injuries, from those with cuts and bruises to people who had been knocked unconsciousness and those suffering from facial and head injuries.
Mr Evans said he had only ever seen one incident of this type before which related to a fight between Swindon and Oxford football fans.
Bosses told their security staff to protect the injured by surrounding them until police arrived, the hearing was told.
Another member of the security team, Rhod Turner, said: "I could tell there was an atmosphere building and there were a lot of drunk males bumping into each other.
"They were around the stands. The atmosphere was volatile and I remember remarking to a colleague that it might kick-off.
"There were two groups of men singing football songs and trying to wind the other up.
"It had broken out to about 80 people fighting although there were pockets of fighting on and off.
"It soon became apparent we didn't have enough staff.
"Groups were punching and kicking one another. As soon as someone hit the floor they were kicked by more than one person.
"It felt like a riot. They were lashing out in all directions trying to hit who they could."
The jury was told that Wayne Wilcox - the father of the stag Darren - was assaulted from behind and robbed of the stag's betting cash.
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Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:53 am
No way I'd have thought that was pre planned, who turns up for a ruck in a suit? 
And I don't think the police are very confident on this one otherwise they would be facing charges of violent disorder.
And I don't think the police are very confident on this one otherwise they would be facing charges of violent disorder.
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:40 pm
64JACK wrote:No way I'd have thought that was pre planned, who turns up for a ruck in a suit?
Your right on that who turns up in a suit for a planned ruck, unless your Pompey in the 80's.
On a serious note not looking good.
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:48 pm
Forever Blue wrote:64JACK wrote:No way I'd have thought that was pre planned, who turns up for a ruck in a suit?
Your right on that who turns up in a suit for a planned ruck, unless your Pompey in the 80's.
On a serious note not looking good.
You may be right Annis, but my guess is they will drop it too threatening behaviour to get a conviction.
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:54 pm
Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:02 pm
abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Couldn't they have just got him a stripper like everyone else?
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:31 pm
64JACK wrote:abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:42 pm
jtc wrote:64JACK wrote:abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Exactly jtc. It's absolutely hilarious! And it's where the CPS will let themselves down on this one by trying to paint a picture which just isn't there too try and make it look worse for the defendants! Any defence barrister worth his salt will take them to the cleaners!
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:10 pm
64JACK wrote:jtc wrote:64JACK wrote:abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Exactly jtc. It's absolutely hilarious! And it's where the CPS will let themselves down on this one by trying to paint a picture which just isn't there too try and make it look worse for the defendants! Any defence barrister worth his salt will take them to the cleaners!
what they up for?affray?if it is you had to go out the house with intent pf causing a riot.well it was years ago.my mate got off with it at bolton away.if they,d done em for anything lower they,d have been bang to rights.if these lads wanted a off they wouldnt arrange to do it a cctv covered venue in their sunday bests would they/
too much ale.too much pride of where they are from is about their biggest crime.always amazes me -a onlooker will say i was frightened for my life.i stood and watched for ten minutes dont know bout you but if im frightened to death im on me toes no ones died have they ?a lower charge would see them fined to death and digging old ladies gardens on a sunday.job done.
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:26 pm
rained off from what ????
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:34 pm
jtc wrote:64JACK wrote:jtc wrote:64JACK wrote:abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Exactly jtc. It's absolutely hilarious! And it's where the CPS will let themselves down on this one by trying to paint a picture which just isn't there too try and make it look worse for the defendants! Any defence barrister worth his salt will take them to the cleaners!
what they up for?affray?if it is you had to go out the house with intent pf causing a riot.well it was years ago.my mate got off with it at bolton away.if they,d done em for anything lower they,d have been bang to rights.if these lads wanted a off they wouldnt arrange to do it a cctv covered venue in their sunday bests would they/
Of course your right jtc. But now I'm hoping they do get slammed, as the way my life is going at the moment I dig old ladies gardens on a Sunday for free anyway, and I've done eff all to anyone!
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:38 pm
bluebirdbaz wrote:rained off from what ????
I think theyre trying to say the race meeting was called off the day before, not the actual 'meet' between both factions.
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:42 pm
how come there was only four arrests three from gorseion and one from llanelle thought there were more arrests than that
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:51 pm
cardiff 74 wrote:how come there was only four arrests three from gorseion and one from llanelle thought there were more arrests than that
I thought that, thought there were about 13/14? Maybe charges were dropped?
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:53 pm
What gets me is PC Harris saying the difference between rugby and football fans is chalk and cheese. What a load of crap. There is more disorder on a 6 nations Saturday in Cardiff than on a Ccfc match day Saturday. Fed up with people portraying rugby fans as innocent angels.
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:44 pm
Gareth (Wilts) wrote:What gets me is PC Harris saying the difference between rugby and football fans is chalk and cheese. What a load of crap. There is more disorder on a 6 nations Saturday in Cardiff than on a Ccfc match day Saturday. Fed up with people portraying rugby fans as innocent angels.
And thats just the women Ga! Load of fat slags in their Welsh RU tops on the piss looking for a shag or a fight!
Last edited by 64JACK on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:46 pm
64JACK wrote:Gareth (Wilts) wrote:What gets me is PC Harris saying the difference between rugby and football fans is chalk and cheese. What a load of crap. There is more disorder on a 6 nations Saturday in Cardiff than on a Ccfc match day Saturday. Fed up with people portraying rugby fans as innocent angels.
And thats just the women Ga! Load of fat slags on the piss looking for a shag or a fight!
Women dressed up as cowboys and daffodils do my head in!
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:58 pm
Gareth (Wilts) wrote:64JACK wrote:Gareth (Wilts) wrote:What gets me is PC Harris saying the difference between rugby and football fans is chalk and cheese. What a load of crap. There is more disorder on a 6 nations Saturday in Cardiff than on a Ccfc match day Saturday. Fed up with people portraying rugby fans as innocent angels.
And thats just the women Ga! Load of fat slags on the piss looking for a shag or a fight!
Women dressed up as cowboys and daffodils do my head in!
Do they really? Try getting groped in Wind street by a giant leek (size 44) in green stockings with the fat hanging over the top of them, and you really will have your head done in!
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:07 pm
the old classic line that there is no violence at rugby, well there is at internationals, in fact i know a few coppers who say its horrendous and the cells will usually fill up despite the fact that they let most people off on the spot and tell them to go home which never normally happens. its exactly the sort of rugby bias we have been brought up on. Ive seen it with my own eyes like many cardiffians....its a shocking night out in town which is why we leave it for the outsiders..... 
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:11 pm
64JACK wrote:Gareth (Wilts) wrote:64JACK wrote:Gareth (Wilts) wrote:What gets me is PC Harris saying the difference between rugby and football fans is chalk and cheese. What a load of crap. There is more disorder on a 6 nations Saturday in Cardiff than on a Ccfc match day Saturday. Fed up with people portraying rugby fans as innocent angels.
And thats just the women Ga! Load of fat slags on the piss looking for a shag or a fight!
Women dressed up as cowboys and daffodils do my head in!
Do they really? Try getting groped in Wind street by a giant leek (size 44) in green stockings with the fat hanging over the top of them, and you really will have your head done in!
Not sure whether you'd fight it or f##k it! Either way you'd be sore in the morning......
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:50 pm
64JACK wrote:abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:10 pm
Interesting that it's billed as football violence but the defendants are linked to a rugby club
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:33 pm
Halifax93 wrote:Interesting that it's billed as football violence but the defendants are linked to a rugby club
They want to link it too football for maximum sentences if they win. In reality it was nothing more than a punch up between Cardiff and Swansea lads on the piss. Could have happened anywhere. I'll never forget having a ruck with your lot on Bristol suspension bridge early 90's!!!! Apart from myself, I can't think of anyone else on our side who was actually a Swans fan!
Re: CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:55 pm
64JACK wrote:jtc wrote:64JACK wrote:jtc wrote:64JACK wrote:abergblue wrote:Barrister trying to make out it was arranged for the day before, but "rained off"
Perhaps because they didn't want to get their suits wet?
And who the hell would pre arrange a ruck for someones stag do!
Exactly jtc. It's absolutely hilarious! And it's where the CPS will let themselves down on this one by trying to paint a picture which just isn't there too try and make it look worse for the defendants! Any defence barrister worth his salt will take them to the cleaners!
what they up for?affray?if it is you had to go out the house with intent pf causing a riot.well it was years ago.my mate got off with it at bolton away.if they,d done em for anything lower they,d have been bang to rights.if these lads wanted a off they wouldnt arrange to do it a cctv covered venue in their sunday bests would they/
you must be doing penance for something then gazza
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:28 pm
64JACK wrote:Halifax93 wrote:Interesting that it's billed as football violence but the defendants are linked to a rugby club
They want to link it too football for maximum sentences if they win. In reality it was nothing more than a punch up between Cardiff and Swansea lads on the piss. Could have happened anywhere. I'll never forget having a ruck with your lot on Bristol suspension bridge early 90's!!!! Apart from myself, I can't think of anyone else on our side who was actually a Swans fan!
How do you get into a fight "on" Clifton Suspension bridge?
Re: DAY 3 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COU
Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:15 pm
There's no violence at the rugby,what a load of tosh, if that's the case why do rugby wives still pack their weekend case ready for their trip up the local A & E after their latest battering from their non violent rugby following husband,following Wales's latest defeat.
Re: DAY 4 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COU
Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:36 pm
Pretty clear the way this is going.
Egg chasers claim self-defense - IMHO at least some of them must have got involved in the first place even IF the others were coming to their aid. A stag night of 70 blokes from Swansea and not one of them a Swansea fan - my arse.
Then the next batch brought to court will be the football fans who will get blamed for it all.
Every line of their statements seem to be trying to build up this picture of getting innocently dragged into a pre-arranged fight..
By the way I don't beleive a word of it. Who'd 'arrnage' a fight somewhere where there would be loads of CCTV, security and thousands of witnesses.
Knowing our lovely legal system what's the bets the judge/jury fall for it hook line and sinker
Egg chasers claim self-defense - IMHO at least some of them must have got involved in the first place even IF the others were coming to their aid. A stag night of 70 blokes from Swansea and not one of them a Swansea fan - my arse.
Then the next batch brought to court will be the football fans who will get blamed for it all.
Every line of their statements seem to be trying to build up this picture of getting innocently dragged into a pre-arranged fight..
By the way I don't beleive a word of it. Who'd 'arrnage' a fight somewhere where there would be loads of CCTV, security and thousands of witnesses.
Knowing our lovely legal system what's the bets the judge/jury fall for it hook line and sinker
Re: DAY 4 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COU
Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:23 pm
Pre arranged my arse!!!
I was there on a stag myself and anybody who goes Newbury races knows its mainly Welsh there on a bus trip of some sort. This day it just happens there was fair mix of both sides. You know what its like beer flowing, bit of chanting and banter etc, but this went up. Apparently some oldish fella got dropped by a younger cardiff lad. And it was nasty fair play, people being dropped right, left and centre from both sides. It seemed to go on for ever, them on top then Cardiff numbered up and seemed on top but they didnt take a back step once in all fairness.
Then the army arrive to escort buses out lol. Mad as hell. Lively day, shit night in Gloucester on way back though
I was there on a stag myself and anybody who goes Newbury races knows its mainly Welsh there on a bus trip of some sort. This day it just happens there was fair mix of both sides. You know what its like beer flowing, bit of chanting and banter etc, but this went up. Apparently some oldish fella got dropped by a younger cardiff lad. And it was nasty fair play, people being dropped right, left and centre from both sides. It seemed to go on for ever, them on top then Cardiff numbered up and seemed on top but they didnt take a back step once in all fairness.
Then the army arrive to escort buses out lol. Mad as hell. Lively day, shit night in Gloucester on way back though
Re: DAY 4 UPDATED CROWN COURT ' CARDIFF/SWANSEA FANS IN COU
Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:23 am
Maybe if the BBC etc did a few documentries on the egg chasing fans it would paint the same picture they do of us football fans.
Also since the mobile phone cameras came along there are thousand of videos on youtube and places from football fans showing others fighting etc so the evidence is there for all to see, the rugby lot dont seem to try 'proof they where there' with video footage so far less is seen in the public eye!!
Also since the mobile phone cameras came along there are thousand of videos on youtube and places from football fans showing others fighting etc so the evidence is there for all to see, the rugby lot dont seem to try 'proof they where there' with video footage so far less is seen in the public eye!!
Re: ' UPDATED ' CARDIFF AND SWANSEA FANS IN COURT TODAY
Sat Nov 16, 2013 7:02 am
goats wrote:the old classic line that there is no violence at rugby, well there is at internationals, in fact i know a few coppers who say its horrendous and the cells will usually fill up despite the fact that they let most people off on the spot and tell them to go home which never normally happens. its exactly the sort of rugby bias we have been brought up on. Ive seen it with my own eyes like many cardiffians....its a shocking night out in town which is why we leave it for the outsiders.....
HERE f*cking HERE. Excellent post.
I won't go out on international days and definitely won't enter the city centre, its absolute carnage. One thing you will learn, they come from all over Wales to spend the day in Cardiff and you won't find a decent, proper Cardiffian out on those nights. Like you said, we rent our city out to the less fortunate people of the Valleys, Swansea, Port Talbort, West Wales, Mid Wales, Newport etc etc 9 weekends a year.